To the members of IfNotNow who chose to stage a disruption at Bret Stephens’ talk at Emanu-El last week, singing and unrolling a banner charging Stephens (and AIPAC, which presented the talk) with not living up to “Jewish values”: It’s a shame you were promptly escorted out, as expected, because you missed an excellent and nuanced presentation.
My wife and I were the people you engaged in conversation at the restaurant after the event. I appreciated the opportunity to hear your viewpoint and the civil conversation, though I doubt we changed your minds. You certainly didn’t change ours.
I’ve been thinking about some of the points we discussed, and I’d like to share them with the readers of J.
You’re very upset that Israel is not a perfect society, as you claim to have been taught in Hebrew school. I can understand that; after all, America also has deep problems about which you were not taught when you were 8 or 12 years old. Many of our childhood myths are rudely overturned by the complex reality we learn about as adults.
Humanity lives in deeply flawed societies. Judging Israel — or America, or your family, or your work — on the basis of an idealized picture, and rejecting it when learning that the truth is far more nuanced, is a poor recipe for navigating your way through life. Looking at Israel’s actions completely in isolation from its environment is like watching a boxing match in which you only see one of the fighters punching, and you wonder why he is acting so aggressively.
You claim that you oppose Israel’s actions — and many of you oppose Israel’s very existence — on the basis of “Jewish values.” But your reading of those values is quite selective. You have decided to accept only those Jewish values you like, and ignore others. Jewish values also include self-defense and self-preservation (“remember what Amalek did to you”), along with Jewish peoplehood (kol Yisrael arevim ze lazeh). Managing the tension created by conflicts between these many important values is part of the challenge of governing a Jewish state, and scholars such as Rabbi Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi write thoughtfully and eloquently about addressing this challenge.
You clearly prioritize ending the occupation over all other issues, including Israel’s very survival. After all, your own mission statement reads, “We do not take a unified stance on BDS, Zionism or the question of statehood.” So it’s no surprise that you don’t have a clear concept of “what comes after”; many of you apparently don’t care if Kalkilya and Tulkarem become Gaza-style missile bases, with their civilians used as human shields while missiles are rained down on Israel’s own population centers.
If you had a credible plan for the day after the occupation ends, then you might be more than a fringe organization whose position is supported by few American Jews — and even fewer Israeli Jews.
It’s not that American Jewish leaders don’t want to see the occupation end; even Stephens explicitly called for that when he spoke. However, we insist that it be on the basis of peace and the end of claims for “Palestine from the river to the sea.” As long as many of you are anti-Zionist activists, your group is simply working to enable their goal of ending the occupation as the first step to eliminating Israel as a Jewish state. Your intellectual and moral dishonesty in being “agnostic” about Jewish statehood is transparent and untenable.
You state that the American Jewish community will lose your support — and imply that it will be the support of your entire generation — because of the occupation. Yet as Stephens noted, “Israel does not exist to make American Jews feel good about themselves.” And for those of you who are anti-Zionist, there is nothing Israel can do to satisfy you except commit suicide as a nation-state and turn Jews into a minority in our own homeland. Given the fate of minorities across the Arab Middle East over the past century, that’s an express route to exile — or to the cemetery.
As I told you that evening, we will go on without you — but with plenty of dedicated young supporters of Israel in this country. Thousands of college students attend AIPAC’s Policy Conference every year, while a few dozen of you stand outside protesting alongside Hamas supporters. StandWithUs works with dedicated and passionate pro-Israel students at campuses across the country. There will always be an anti-Israel fringe movement among Jews, but the broad American public support for Israel is only growing stronger every decade.
I’m glad we talked. I agree with you that you’re not “self-hating Jews.” You are very passionately in love with yourselves and with your idealism. I hope that you can eventually add some wisdom and maturity to that.
Bravo!
Great response Mike. Bret Stephens said Israel should demand and receive respect as a sovereign nation first and then love can come after. You cannot have love without respect. For too long we have sought permission and admiration as necessary for the existence of Israel’s right to exist. India, created at the same time as Israel, has Pakistanis crippled with hate for India the way Palestinians are imprisoned in hate and victimhood with Israel, but does not seek love first. Imagine 70 countries convening in Paris passing resolutions on how India should hand Kashmir to Pakistan or in the UN that Hindus have no relationship to Delhi. Let’s stop telling fairy tales about Israel to our children and let’s start enabling their connection to Israelis, so they feel connected to the Jewish homeland.
well said, dr harris
What an excellent article by Michael Harris. All the points are absolutely right on the money.
The word that jumps out at me here is disingenuous. The author recognizes that the image of a perfect Israel is a myth, that no government is perfect, that ending the occupation might be good if Israel could be guaranteed security etc. Meanwhile, he’s co-founded a StandWithUs chapter, an org which perpetuates that same myth of a perfect Israel and which serves to shield the Israeli govt from criticism at every turn. I’d rather the author be honest and admit that he (and the org he affiliates with) is committed to defending the Israeli govt at all costs as it gallops toward an apartheid one state reality. I’d rather he say that Israel might not be perfect but it sure as hell isn’t bad enough to criticize in any real way, i.e. to admit that Israeli govt actions might be a significant factor preventing a peace deal.
Same tired lines I’ve heard from so many Jewish communal leaders over the years. “Of course Israel isn’t perfect… no country is perfect… where would you ever get that idea, anyway?!” I mean, come on. These leaders, and the institutions they run, are responsible for us young Jews feeling like we need to worship the state of Israel in the first place. They shouldn’t feign shock at young Jews disconnecting from the myth of a perfect Israel and certainly shouldn’t act as if they don’t know where that myth comes from, since they spend their lives actively perpetuating it.
I identify even more strongly with INN after reading this condescending piece.
Jonathan,
To me, it seems like this post is exactly the attitude that Dr. Harris is describing You seem to be very upset about the view of a “perfect Israel” being presented (which is understandable) but you have not defended against any of the very compelling points Dr. Harris has made here. For example, does it bother you that you are selectively elevating certain Jewish values, while seemingly ignoring Jewish people hood and security? In full disclosure, in really not a huge fan of Stand With Us, but I think Dr Harris has perfectly articulated my objections to INN and I think your response validates his argument.
Israel might not be perfect but it is better than any Arab state in the neighborhood.
And the world is much better off with Israel than without it.
There is no significant difference between Islam and Nazism. They both are dedicated to the extermination of Jews. Any compromise Israel would make for peace would only make it easier for the Muslims to destroy them.
stand with us does not project the myth that israel is perfect. to the contrary
stand with us asks that israel be judged on the same standards as all other nations
and there is no occupation
there are disputed territories
nobody wants you to worship the state
worship hashem
do teshuva…keep the mitzvot
something that none of your cohorts in inn do
You are a very foolish person – with an attitude.
Does it embarrass you, Taubes, to claim that Israel is an apartheid state when it is well-understood by all honest observers that it is not, that Israel is a well-integrated society. Could other factors “preventing a peace deal” include 50 years of Palestinian rejections? Could other factors include Palestinian insistence that a Palestinian state extend “from the River to the Sea” and that Israel not exist? Could endless Palestinian incitement to terrorism and encouraging children to attack and kill Jews have something to do with it? Could the most popular Palestinian party, Hamas, having a religious commitment to destroying Israel have anything to do with it? Could Iran funding and arming Hezbollah have something to do with there being no peace deal?
Obviously not. None of those could possibly have anything to do with there being no peace. If they did, then Taubes would look like a shameless anti-Israel bigot for pretending he does not know that. Which he surely could not be. Could he?
WHAT A PERFECT AND CLEARLY WRITTEN ‘ADVICE’ ‘PRESCRIPTION’ FOR MR STEPHENS ! DR HARRIS: DID YOU CRAWL INSIDE MY BRAIN AND EXTRACT MY EXACT THOUGHTS ? YOU ARE AMAZING ! AND THANK YOU FOR WRITING POINT ON ABOUT JEWS WHO LOVE AND ARE DEDICATED TO ISRAEL AND THAT ISRAEL MUST, WILL ALWAYS BE ISRAEL AND NO ONE WILL EVER, EVER DESTROY HER ! AMEN !
Statism is immoral and criminal . Jews practicing it are no better than any other group that practice this immoral criminal act in the name of a flag . Jews doing it is worst .. chosen people picking masters for 5000 years trying in impose their will on others . Kapo’s of humanity . This piece is pure propaganda and shame on every Jew that remains silent .
Do you have any problem with the 22 currently existing Arab states-or is it only the one Jewish one that upsets you?
His Disqus history suggests that he is a deluded anarchist — if that’s not redundant. But that does not change the fact that he is echoing the themes of the worst of the Jew-haters.
Consent ? Jews that practice Statism are no better than the communist or the Nazis . They high jack the religion like the radical Muslim .. like Hitler socialist animals .
so the simple fact of having a state makes one evil?
nah. he is one of those “sovereign citizen” nutters
you know, the guys who claim that when they are driving a car, they arent…they are merely traveling and therefore do not have to abide by the laws of the road
All Statism is criminal practice just like slavery . Voluntaryism is the evolution of reasoning.
Anyone who uses “chosen people” the way you are using it is profoundly and willfully ignorant about the Jewish religion, and at best is echoing lies fostered by Jew-hating genocidists. That you think Jews “for 5000 years trying in impose their will on others” tells us everything we need to know about you.
Have we not practice statism for 5000 years from Kings to communism ? We have to address anti-Semitism not hind behind it and allow it to be used to further the practice of Statism . I’m a Jew that believes all actions / relationships must be voluntary and of consent .
if you were a jew, you would know what “chosen people” actually means
what you sound like is one of those loony “sovereign citizen” nutters
Israel is opposed by Muslims who seek to destroy it and slaughter all Jews just like Hitler. There is no point in negotiating or compromising with them as all it will do is make it easier for them to murder 6 million Jews.
Do you oppose the Palestinians having a state? Do you oppose the Portuguese having a state? Do you oppose the Bolivians having a state? Or are you just opposed the the Jews having a state?
Yes.. I oppose all.. Statism enslaves it’s own people in the name of nationalism ..If it’s not Voluntaryism it’s tyranny.. All act must be voluntary and no country practices this simple rule that individuals understand completely .
Pure bullshit . The practice of Statism is in immoral and criminal. This practice is been going on for 5000 years Jews picking masters imposing their will on the rest of the world .. what’s the difference between them in England or Germany or Iran? None
Repeating the same stale lies over and over again won’t make them true.
Have we not practiced Ststism for 5000 years ? How is this untrue ?
no, we have not
begone, you heathen
The way it is not true is that nothing that could be called a modern state existed before the 17th Century settlement of the 30 Years War in 1648. Tribal kingdoms are not states.
You need to read . Take responsibility of the practice of Statism .
https://imgflip.com/i/1qclvd#FB3OwR3vZQZmxMe2.01
So tell us what is statism and why it is objectionable?
The Muslims who surround Israel are dedicated to it’s distraction and the slaughter of it’s 6 million Jewish citizens.
Furthermore, Israel exists because they and the British defeated the Muslim rulers. Now you make claim that this makes Israel an illegitimate state. However, that argument makes every Muslim state also illegitimate because they are the result of conquests by Muslim armies. Let the Muslims return the lands they’ve conquered before Israel is returned to the Christians who should return it to the Romans who should return it to the Jews.
If you believed a word of what you are saying, rather than just rationalizing your antisemitism, the very last thing you would want would be to create yet another state. Especially when there is an absolute certainty that a Palestinian state would be as authoritarian and corrupt as the PA or as mercilessly genocidal as Hamas.
As an aside, you also don’t know what you are talking about. The modern secular form of the state dates back no further than the 17th Century.
Great article Mike
Its a shada that the J published an article published by a women commenting on an event she did not attend.
If one is to be critical one needs to at least hear what was said.
These young Jewish fascists are beyond nauseating. Their parents ought to be extremely ashamed.
It probably does not help that the J. has repeatedly published childish rants by Ifnotnow members on their own opinion pages. One presumes that the J. staff’s rationalization for publishing these attacks on Israel’s right to exist is the usual “being open to all points of view” hypocrisy. On that rationale the J. should publish Hamas opinion pieces and Nazi opinion pieces. Surely it is a coincidence that the privileged young women who write this stuff invariably turn out to be the daughters of members of the Bay Area nomenklatura. it just has to be a coincidence because the alternative is to regard the J. staff as themselves anti-Israel and pro-BDS. Which would be very much in violation of their charter and ample grounds for JCRC to escort them to the door and hire a new staff clearer on the concept.