Comix Friday: Talking Talmud Comics with Yonah Lavery, part II

Last week I posted Part I of my interview with Yonah Lavery, a Jewish artist from Canada who draws Talmud Comics. This week: Part II.

Rachel: What’s been the reaction you've gotten from people about the comics?

Yonah: I was really worried about this originally, because I just kind of assumed there was something very wrong with whatever I was drawing. I don’t know why I had that impression! But I think I’ve actually gotten one negative response in this whole time.

Once I was going to the Orthodox shul for weekday Shacharit, and I left my purse in the women’s section. I assumed that would be cool, but a couple of people pulled my notebook out of my purse and they were looking at it. That made me incredibly anxious -- I was like, “Oh my G-d, what are they going to say?” But they were really excited. I remember one of the things that one of the old men said: “Oh, wow, it’s Rabbi Yochanan, and he’s in a comic! That’s so awesome!” So that was a huge relief.

The one thing which I did have a negative reaction to was, of course, there’s nudity in my comics, and that’s not so ... frum.

Rachel: Have you included controversial elements like nudity, women laying tefillin, etc., as a sort of statement, or is it something you see as a natural outgrowth of drawing the Talmud?

Yonah: I want to be honest to my background and my understanding of Judaism, which sometimes involves women laying tefillin, for example. As for the nudity and sexual content, this is actually something that I feel very strongly about, because I feel that that’s definitely there in shas, and to try to be more modest than the text itself strikes me as presumptuous in a way. I really don’t think these are topics which should be in any way lost or muted because we feel they’re improper, because obviously they weren’t.

Rachel: Have you ever shared the Talmud Comics with your Talmud teacher?

Yonah: Noooo. (Laughs) I think that would be a very poor idea.

Rachel: Why?

Yonah: I don’t know -- I think he would probably think they were inappropriate. Actually, I have no idea how he would react, but I’d be too worried about jeopardizing that.

Rachel: Do you use a translation when you do the comics?

Yonah: Yeah -- I’m too lazy to do my own, and also, since the language is so terse, I’m always anxious about what gaps are appropriate to fill in, and what aren’t. Between the different translations I have, it tends to give a good idea of how much you’re supposed to let lie implicit, and how much you’re supposed to bring out of the text.

For example, it says “so-and-so went into the Holy of Holies.” Can you say “on Yom Kippur,” which it obviously was? Or is that a bit of religious knowledge that you’re supposed to bring? So it’s hard to know what’s supposed to come from the text sometimes.

Rachel: Have you ever considered reworking the talmudic language to make the comics more accessible to people who aren't familiar with Talmud?

Yonah: I would feel really anxious about changing around the words. I have so little purchase in this world -- I’m not good enough to do something like that.

There are a number of gentile friends of mine who read this, and I try to think, what’s the minimum [I could explain] that they would not be totally lost?

Rachel: Are there any comics that have taken you a long time to do, or that have caused you any trouble?

Yonah: Yes -- there’s actually one I keep meaning to do, and I can’t do it, and that’s the story of Yalta and how Ulla comes to her house and completely insults her, and she gets up and smashes 400 bottles of wine. It’s an amazing story, but I can’t draw it for some reason -- I guess because it’s either going to be hilarious, which I think really undercuts the power in that story and the serious statement which is being made, or it’s going to be really serious, which undercuts how funny it is.

Also the one where Rabbi Akiva dies -- it was really hard for me to do in a way that was tasteful and not shlocky and embarrassingly emotional.

Rachel: Do you have a favorite Talmud Comic?

Yonah: It's the one talking about Rava, with him looking in through the window and it’s wintery. I like this because in all teacher-student relationships, and a lot of parent-child relationships too, there’s always this desire to be even more to the person than you actually are. I think a lot of students want to be sons and daughters, and a lot of children want to be impressive to their parents in a way that has nothing to do with the fact that their mother changed their diaper 950 times when they were a baby — to sort of “earn” it.

I think that both of these relationships have this pseudo-tragic or disappointing dimension to them, which I really like, because it’s so perfectly illustrated by these two pages.

Rachel: Have you ever thought about using the comics as a teaching device, or making them into a book?

Yonah: I’m thinking about the book thing -- there’s a publishing house called Ben Yehuda Press, and they’re interested. They’ve sent me a contract, which is nice, but I haven’t signed it yet.

Rachel: Why not?

Yonah: Well, it’s rather long, and I have a short attention span. (Laughs)

Rachel: Will you continue doing Talmud Comics while you’re in Israel?

Yonah: I don’t know. There’s a certain amount that I’m supposed to finish, so I’ll definitely do that, and then after, I don’t know. I guess it would be nice to change up my creative projects a little bit - but for me personally it’s a really good device, so maybe I won’t outgrow it.

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Thanks, Yonah! Be sure to check out more of Yonah's artwork -- and buy some prints to support her upcoming move to Israel! -- at TalmudComics.net.

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Comix Friday is published in the Art Scene blog every Friday, and focuses on Jewish comic artists and Jewish-themed comix. If you know of anything I should be blogging about in Comix Friday, let me know!

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