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Tuesday, January 3, 2012 | return to: views, opinions


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Groups that demonize Israel place themselves outside the tent

by natan nestel

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U.C. Berkeley's Jewish Student Union's decision to deny membership to J Street U created controversy. Opponents of the decision claim that J Street is pro-Israel, no Jewish group should be excluded, and that any exclusion is undemocratic and alienates students.

Yet those who oppose J Street's inclusion have good cause for concern. Consider some of the groups and speakers that J Street has brought to U.S. campuses:

• Breaking the Silence is a fringe Israeli group touring U.S. campuses defaming the Israeli army for "war crimes." This New Israel Fund-supported group claims that Israel commits "crimes against humanity" and "ethnic cleansing" and "violates human rights." BTS is quoted 27 times in the infamous Goldstone report, which Goldstone himself has disavowed. BTS still promulgates it.

This is the same BTS that Students for Justice in Palestine, which leads the delegitimization campaign against Israel on campuses, lists on its website as an advocacy group for its anti-Israel campaign.

• J Street U arranged talks by John Ging, former director of UNRWA in Gaza. He is known for promoting political warfare against Israel and supporting the pro-Hamas flotillas.

• J Street U promotes the NIF-funded Sheikh Jarrah Solidarity Movement. The Jewish Agency describes the SJSM as "opposing the idea of Israel as a Jewish homeland and promoting an anti-Zionist agenda." The group collaborates with the anti-Israel global BDS movement, and defames Israel as a "fascist state." They talk about victories over "cowardly Zionists who are perpetrating an apartheid state and ethnic cleansing in Jerusalem," and urge liquidation of the Jewish Agency and the Jewish National Fund.

• J Street U also presents the NIF-funded B'Tselem, which is quoted 56 times in the Goldstone report. The chair of B'Tselem's board, Oren Yiftachel, has called for "effective sanctions" against Israel during the war against Hamas in Gaza, and supported the Palestinian "right of return," which means the destruction of the Jewish state. Their CEO, Jessica Montell, justifies calling Israel an apartheid state. She said: "I think the word apartheid is useful for mobilizing people because of its emotional power." SJP lists B'teselem on its website as an advocacy group.

What's common to J Street U events is not a balanced, thoughtful discussion of Israel - it is the defamation of Israel, spreading of falsehoods and one-sided attacks.

Alan Dershowitz says: "J Street has harmed Israel more than any American organization" and its pro-Israel claims constitute "fraud in advertising" and "it has made a generation of Jews ashamed to be pro-Israel, and has made it politically correct among young people to single out Israel to a double standard and for fault."
J Street is already entrenched at Berkeley's Hillel and the JSU. The group Kesher Enoshi, a member of Hillel and of the Jewish Student Union, is J Street's proxy there.

This year, Kesher Enoshi, along with J Street U, brought the founder of the Sheikh Jarrah Solidarity Movement to speak at Hillel. He demonized Israel, proclaiming, "Jerusalem is a symbol of evil." Berkeley's Hillel director argued that this was "within the framework of national Hillel's Israel policy." However, national Hillel guidelines explicitly state that "Hillel will not partner with, house or host organizations, groups or speakers that delegitimize, demonize or apply a double standard to Israel."

Hillel also funded its members to go to J Street's national conference in Washington, D.C.

The toxic consequences of Kesher Enoshi's Israel-bashing events - organized in the last three years under the guise of "progressive Israel activism" - demonstrate why groups that demonize, or collaborate with demonizing-groups, should be excluded.

In the year preceding the Spring 2010 anti-Israel divestment bill at U.C. Berkeley, Kesher Enoshi, which lists events on the Hillel website and is also listed on the Hillel website in the "Get Involved" category, organized Israel defamatory events in collaboration with Students for Justice in Palestine. These events laid the groundwork for the SJP initiated divestment bill.

Kesher Enoshi and SJP organized the Breaking the Silence event, promoted by Hillel as "testimonies by Israeli soldiers about human rights abuses committed by the Israeli Military."

They organized the Shministim, a group of Israeli draft dodgers who defame the IDF and Israel. Their U.S. tour was organized by the delegitimizing/BDS Jewish Voice for Peace.

Along with SJP, the Muslim Student Association, JVP, Middle East Children's Alliance and other delegitimizing groups, the Hillel group Kesher Enoshi sponsored an event that compared the IDF to the Nazis.

At the Berkeley student senate meetings, formerly pro-Israel Jewish students - who were co-opted by exposure to Kesher Enoshi's demonizing events - were conspicuously active in advocating the adoption of the divestment resolution.

Many of the co-opted students are joining the larger delegitimizing/BDS movement. For example: Avital Aboudy, who signed pro-Hamas ISM petitions calling for divestment from Israel, and Eyal Mazor, who is involved with the delegitimizing/BDS JVP and Code Pink. Eyal's younger brother, Alon, became a leader of Kesher Enoshi, and is actively trying to get J Street U into the JSU.
Many Jewish students now avoid Hillel because of its demonizing events.

Would people who advocate the inclusion of demonizing groups, under the guise of promoting a "big tent," welcome a Kahanist group or Jews for Jesus?

In "Is J Street in the tent, or out?" in the Jerusalem Post, Daniel Gordis, a regular columnist for the Post, observed: "It's one thing to put ‘pro-Israel' in your tagline, and another to be ‘pro-Israel' ... Even a big tent, though, has its limits."

Hillel leaders should enforce national Hillel guidelines forbidding Israel-demonizing events and groups.
Demonizing groups and events place themselves outside the tent.


Natan Nestel, when a graduate student at U.C. Berkeley, founded the Jewish Student Union, and is a co-founder of the Israel Action Committee at U.C. Berkeley. He also served as chairman of the Israeli Students Organization in North America and was on the executive board of the North American Jewish Students Network.

 

 



Comments

Posted by PJW5552
01/03/2012  at  01:18 PM

These comments are similar to those I have read by others embracing a militaristic state.  You are either for us or against us.  All criticisms of official policy border on acts of treason. But what, pray tell, is the true reality of a pro-Israel?

Is a true pro-Israel policy open dialog, or a limited one? The more one attempts to limit open discussion, opposing views and conflicting beliefs, the more one limits understanding and growth required for true constructive change.  Is limited dialog pro-Israel or anti-Israel?

Militaristic states are very homogeneous in thoughts and actions.  Unfortunately, they have a very limited perspective of the world that ultimately results in their downfall. Is the enforcement of greater homogeneity of thought, pro-Israel or anti-Israel?

There is a Yin and a Yang for a reason.  The goal is to find a balance between them.  Elimination of one or the other produces an imbalance that either inhibits needed change, or is unable to control or adapt to change. What defines the current Israeli leadership?  Is that pro-Israel or anti-Israel?

Fear is not a constructive emotion or a productive one.  We fear what we do not understand, and thus seek to avoid.  When fear defines the political discourse, it is never for the purpose of understanding different viewpoints, embracing open dialog or discussion that may result in change and adaptation. The purpose of fear in politics is to end discussion and encourage a single viewpoint. 

Fear is a common political reality in militaristic societies.  It enhances homogeneity in thinking.  It encourages uniformity of thought.  Is this to be the legacy that is Israel?  Is that legacy pro-Israel or anti-Israel? You be the judge!

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
01/03/2012  at  02:09 PM
A Superb Op-Ed

Thanks to Mr. Nestel, we have in his commentary an excellent compendium of why so many in the Jewish community don’t see J Street as an organization supportive of Israel. In fact, quite the contrary.

The events discussed above also call into reasonable question why Hillel continues to be directed by Rabbi Kelman, under whose inert leadership many of these deplorable activities transpired…

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Posted by Dave Marshak
01/03/2012  at  03:21 PM
Hillel

Several other Hillels sponsored Breaking the Silence. This is relevant:

http://www.hillel.org/about/news/2007/jan/ICCStatement_2007Jan23.htm

I don’t agree with that group and don’t think it should have been supported. The issue is whether to fire a Hillel director for viewing things differently.

I strongly disagree with the Sheikh Jarrah Solidarity Movement. I don’t view that as sufficient reason to exclude J Street or see them as demonizers of Israel.

How to deal with those who disagree with us about Israel is a difficult and important issue. When we talk to them, we give them credibility. When we don’t talk to them, we can’t influence them and make it harder to counter their influence with other people. It is useful to understand what makes people be sure they are right when they are clearly wrong. So I believe in talking with anyone who will carry on a reasonable conversation. I recognize that is controversial.

“NIF-funded B’Tselem”

Are those two organizations outside the tent? Do they support BDS?

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
01/03/2012  at  03:54 PM
Here's Your Answer, Mr. Marshak...

Did J Street U promotes the NIF-funded Sheikh Jarrah Solidarity Movement which collaborates with BDS supporters?

Did J St. U also support the NIF-funded B’Tselem, which called for sanctions vs Israel and advocates the “single state solution,” aka the end of Israel as a Jewish state?

Mr. Marshak, you know the answer is indisputably affirmative to both of these questions.

So if you wish to converse with members of J St. U and others who support BDS and the end of the Jewish State, it’s a free country—discuss away. But for most of us, such organizations lie emphatically outside of the tent and are not welcome inside…

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Posted by Dave Marshak
01/03/2012  at  04:08 PM
NIF

Temple Isaiah just had a talk by CEO of the New Israel Fund, Daniel Sokatch. I understand it was excellent. Where does that put them and other organizations which hosted him?

I think our community had enough of guilt by association in the late 40s and 50s.

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Posted by craven_maven
01/03/2012  at  04:34 PM
Yes!

“Groups that demonize Israel place themselves outside the tent”

Absolutely correct. It’s a basic and irrefutable fact that delegitimization and demonization of Israel are the new anti-Semitism.

It does my heart good to see this clearly recognized and rejected, esp., in the Bay Area and this publication, where so much of this new anti-Semitism not only goes unrecognized but is accepted and agreed with.

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Posted by rfaelmoshe
01/03/2012  at  05:51 PM
...except Jewish nationalism

In my experience with the Bay Area Anti-Israel loonies, generally,I’ve found that their Anti-Israel opinions are based on a fantasy view of history rather than reality, and often have major psychological issues with their parents. After many conversations, I have come to understand that Anti-Zionists seem to believe that all peoples around the world are entitled to the natural right of national self-determination in their ancestral homeland EXCEPT for the Jewish people. As to Jewish nationalism, Anti-Zionists seem to prefer the invented nationalism of the ethnically diverse collection of Muslims popularly called, the “Palestinians” ( invented in 1964 by the Arab League)over the ancient and documented desire of the Jewish people to return to their ancestral homeland and Holy sites.  While Anti-Zionist ignorance is ever on display, their motives are murky but are clearly distinct from the stated motives of the Anti-Zionists.

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Posted by concernedstudent
01/04/2012  at  10:19 AM
Where are the facts? Is this about J Street U or orther orgs?

Mr. Nestel,

You have a lot of unsubstantiated claims, so for the sake of the readers, can you please provide evidence for each claim?  Let’s go down the list. 

Can you find me where the Sheikh Jarrah Solidarity Movement says that they’re anti-Israel, anti-two states, and anti-Zionist?  Further, you give us a quote, in quotations.  I assumed that a quick search would locate the source, but there is none.  Where was this quote given?  A little research would show that the SJSM is rejected by many Palestinian one-staters as too Zionist because it fosters “normalization”.  Please get your facts straight before slinging lies.

With B’Tselem, again you fail to provide evidence to substantiate your claims.  CEO Jessica Martell actually responded to the Goldstone Report by stating that “There’s no question that the HRC, which mandated the Goldstone [fact-finding mission into the Gaza fighting], has an inappropriate, disproportionate fixation with Israel.”  Sure sounds like someone who is against Israel’s existence. 

Let’s see what else…oh wait, that’s it!  The rest of your article is about ANOTHER GROUP, Kesher Enoshi.  In fact, you NEVER talk about J Street’s actual ideas or policies in this article- only those of other groups. 

For the sake of your own knowledge, I urge my fellow readers to conduct their own research from the source itself- J Street’s actual website, press releases, stances, etc. 

What Natan doesn’t mention is that even in his own organization, “Israel Action Committee”, there are J Street U members, including a co-chair.  Scandalous!

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Posted by concernedstudent
01/04/2012  at  10:20 AM

But Natan, like others are the far right and far left, love to play the game of association.  Well, what if I told you that Natan, and groups like Tikvah, blamed Jewish persecution on…the Jews?  What’s the logic?  Well, part of UC Berkeley’s right wing pro-Israel coalition is Christians United for Israel.  Their founder and chairman, John Hagee, says that Hitler was a “half-breed Jew”, and that ““It was the disobedience and rebellion of the Jews, God’s chosen people, to their covenantal responsibility to serve only the one true God, Jehovah, that gave rise to the opposition and persecution that they experienced beginning in Canaan and continuing to this very day… Their own rebellion had birthed the seed of antisemitism that would arise and bring destruction to them for centuries to come…. it rises from the judgment of God upon his rebellious chosen people”.  He also subscribes to anti-Semetic conspiracies about Jews controlling the banks. 

When the more “pro-Israel” students are in league with radical evangelical anti-Semites, we have to ask ourselves who the real pro-Israel students are.  Mr. Nestel wants Israel to maintain the status quo until it drags itself into further alienation and is forced to sacrifice either its democracy or Jewish character.  Groups like J Street U offer a way forward- Nestel and others on the pro-Israel right do not.  Perhaps some introspection is needed when formerly pro-Israel students are apparently abandoning Berkeley’s right wing groups.  Perhaps it’s time for an organization that is proudly Zionist and pro-Israel, but doesn’t need to adopt an “Israel right-or-wrong” approach and ally itself with anti-Semites. 

My two cents..

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Posted by reuvenc
01/04/2012  at  10:28 AM

But Natan, like others are the far right and far left, love to play the game of association.  Well, what if I told you that Natan, and groups like Tikvah, blamed Jewish persecution on…the Jews?  What’s the logic?  Well, part of UC Berkeley’s right wing pro-Israel coalition is Christians United for Israel.  Their founder and chairman, John Hagee, says that a certain German dictator was a “half-breed Jew”, and that “It was the disobedience and rebellion of the Jews, God’s chosen people, to their covenantal responsibility to serve only the one true God, Jehovah, that gave rise to the opposition and persecution that they experienced beginning in Canaan and continuing to this very day… Their own rebellion had birthed the seed of antisemitism that would arise and bring destruction to them for centuries to come…. it rises from the judgment of God upon his rebellious chosen people”.  He also subscribes to anti-Semetic conspiracies about Jews controlling the banks. 

When the more “pro-Israel” students are in league with radical evangelical anti-Semites, we have to ask ourselves who the real pro-Israel students are.  Mr. Nestel wants Israel to maintain the status quo until it drags itself into further alienation and is forced to sacrifice either its democracy or Jewish character.  Groups like J Street U offer a way forward- Nestel and others on the pro-Israel right do not.  Perhaps some introspection is needed when formerly pro-Israel students are apparently abandoning Berkeley’s right wing groups.  Perhaps it’s time for an organization that is proudly Zionist and pro-Israel, but doesn’t need to adopt an “Israel right-or-wrong” approach and ally itself with anti-Semites.

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Posted by reuvenc
01/04/2012  at  10:29 AM
Two can play that game

But Natan, like others are the far right and far left, love to play the game of association.  Well, what if I told you that Natan, and groups like Tikvah, blamed Jewish persecution on…the Jews?  What’s the logic?  Well, part of UC Berkeley’s right wing pro-Israel coalition is Christians United for Israel.  Their founder and chairman, John Hagee, says that a certain German dictator was a “half-breed Jew”, and that “It was the disobedience and rebellion of the Jews, God’s chosen people, to their covenantal responsibility to serve only the one true God, Jehovah, that gave rise to the opposition and persecution that they experienced beginning in Canaan and continuing to this very day… Their own rebellion had birthed the seed of antisemitism that would arise and bring destruction to them for centuries to come…. it rises from the judgment of God upon his rebellious chosen people”.  He also subscribes to anti-Semetic conspiracies about Jews controlling the banks.

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Posted by reuvenc
01/04/2012  at  10:30 AM
One more thing..

When the more “pro-Israel” students are in league with radical evangelical anti-Semites, we have to ask ourselves who the real pro-Israel students are.  Mr. Nestel wants Israel to maintain the status quo until it drags itself into further alienation and is forced to sacrifice either its democracy or Jewish character.  Groups like J Street U offer a way forward- Nestel and others on the pro-Israel right do not.  Perhaps some introspection is needed when formerly pro-Israel students are apparently abandoning Berkeley’s right wing groups.  Perhaps it’s time for an organization that is proudly Zionist and pro-Israel, but doesn’t need to adopt an “Israel right-or-wrong” approach and ally itself with antiSemites.

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Posted by Joel Rubinstein
01/04/2012  at  11:48 AM
Breaking the Silence

When there is a military occupation, and the occupied people don’t want to be occupied, it’s not pretty. Israeli soldiers are the enforcers of the occupation. They are young, just out of high school. Men serve three years and women two. After their service, many soldiers remember events that trouble them. Breaking the Silence is an organization that lets soldiers share their experiences of serving in the occupation. This is a good thing. The greater part of the Israeli public never ventures into the West Bank, or if it does, stays only on the main roads. Most Israelis never see what the soldiers see every day. So Breaking the Silence gives the Israeli public the opportunity to learn from the first-hand experience of the soldiers.

Breaking the Silence is not Wikileaks. It is not about revealing official state secrets.

But wait! Breaking the Silence is quoted in the Goldstone Report and Students for Justice in Palestine! Well, so what? Israel has critics, we know that. Should we use the pretext of the existence of Israel’s critics to suppress a free, open, transparent discussion (not revealing state secrets) about the occupation by the very young people who are asked to sacrifice three years of their lives in service of that occupation?

By Natan Nestel’s logic, if in the 1950s and 1960s, the Soviet Union used information gathered by the NAACP on the ugliness of Jim Crow and racial segregation to criticize the United States, this would be grounds for putting the NAACP “outside the tent.” Well, I’m glad that the NAACP stayed inside the tent and continued to promote justice in the United States, and I’m glad that Breaking the Silence remains inside the tent, helping shed light on the impact of the occupation on the occupiers and the occupied.

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
01/04/2012  at  12:38 PM
It Must be Rubbish Pick-up Day

Because “concerned student” makes an absurd claim that SJSM isn’t anti-Zionist, Ditto Rubinstein’s absurd contention despite everything Breaking the Silence says in its presentations and literature, that it is supportive of a Jewish state.

And then there is reuvenc’s rejoinder that Mr. Nestel’s on target evidentially accurate commentary is comparable with some ridiculous rightwing Christian organization which also just happens to be pro-Israel. That is unworthy of any response other than to note that most KKK members are also pro-US and that hardly makes them representative of those who support America.

One can’t even say “nice try” to these ludicrous statements. I think these people enjoy talking to themselves similar to KPFA listeners, Tikkun subscribers and Berkeley Daily Planet on line readers.

No matter how absurd, you will find Kesher and JVP people sitting around ratifying one another’s opinions which few knowledgeable people in the Jewish community take seriously. For such commenters, facts are an inconvenience which take a backseat to their ideological dictates…

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Posted by Joel Rubinstein
01/04/2012  at  12:39 PM
Four legs good

Natan Nestel uses the term “NIF-funded” often enough that he begins to sound like the sheep of Animal Farm bleating “Four legs good, two legs bad.” NIF is a solidly pro-Israel organization, as evidenced by the fact that every year at NIF’s annual Guardian of Democracy Dinner, Israel’s Consul General to Northern California Akiva Tor comes to thank New Israel Fund for all of NIF’s great work.

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Posted by Joel Rubinstein
01/04/2012  at  01:28 PM
It must be make stuff up day

It must be make stuff up day, because Dan Spitzer makes up stuff about what I said: “Ditto Rubinstein’s absurd contention despite everything Breaking the Silence says in its presentations and literature, that it is supportive of a Jewish state.” I agree that Breaking the Silence is supportive of Israel, but I didn’t say that. I said “Breaking the Silence gives the Israeli public the opportunity to learn from the first-hand experience of the soldiers…. helping shed light on the impact of the occupation on the occupiers and the occupied.” Dan, if you want to respond, I suggest you put forth some real evidence. You say that everything in Breaking the Silence’s literature shows that it is anti-Israel. Well, I invite readers to look at the website at http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/ and see for themselves. I don’t have all day, but at random I selected the document “Women Soldier’s Testimonies” at http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Women_Soldiers_Testimonies_2009_Eng.pdf. On page 10 of the PDF (page 7 of the actual booklet), in the middle of a soldier’s first-person account, she says, “... when I’m asked for my opinion of
the Separation Fence, politically I cannot oppose it one-hundred percent. Something
has to set a border because it was really… [ellipsis in original] And they crossed over, they crossed
every single day. You cannot ignore the fact that they did. Our aim was to prevent
the maximum possible, and especially by this ‘lookout watch,’....”

This soldier is a patriot who has put her life at risk in defense of the Jewish State.  Breaking the Silence has given her and thousands of other soldiers who have put their lives at risk in defense of the Jewish State a chance to speak their minds. How dare you accuse Breaking the Silence, and by extension the brave patriotic Israeli soldiers who gave three years of their lives in service of the Jewish State, whose stories are told in Breaking the Silence publications, of not supporting Israel.

I can’t spend my whole day defending against lies, distortions and misrepresentations. I ave to go to work now. Dan, please feel free to criticize organizations you don’t like, but please, stick to the facts.

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
01/04/2012  at  02:21 PM
Rubinstein, I Could Say "How Dare You...

contend that Breaking the Silence is an organization supportive of Israel.” But it would be a waste of time to rain on your ideological parade, won’t it?  For people of your biased perspective, truth is, as I’ve said, an inconvenience.

Actually, it’s a waste of time to try to dialogue with those like Rubinstein, reuvinc, concernedstudent, and those who contend-as Marshak did-that there are those who support BDS who are “good people.” I’ll simply, in the parlance of an SNL character, let you “speak among yourselves.” Because I can assure you that you resonate with a minuscule number in the Jewish community…

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Posted by Dave Marshak
01/04/2012  at  05:37 PM
Jewish Community

What the Jewish community thinks about various issues is an interesting question. There are Christians who don’t think the Board of Rabbis, JCRC and others represent the whole community. They think there are many Jews who are not upset by claims Israel is an apartheid state. I contend they are wrong. On the other hand I don’t think only a miniscule number of Jews think Christians and others who support some form of divestment are not all bad people. In fact I am surprised that thinking some of them are good people is controversial. I don’t agree with Desmond Tutu and Jimmy Carter. I think they are totally wrong. But I think it is a mistake for us to go around calling them evil people. The same for other Christian leaders who have wrong-headed ideas about Israel and how to achieve peace.

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Posted by craven_maven
01/04/2012  at  06:49 PM

I disagree with you Mr. Marshak. I think people like Tutu, Carter and Ron Paul who call Israel an “apartheid state” are more than merely “wrong” or misguided; they are evil and anti-Semitic. The same applies to the BDS crowd, people like Elvis Costello and the British academic union. These people single out Israel for harsh, unfair treatment, while bending over backwards to appease Israel’s Arab enemies – Carter, for example, has insisted that Israel negotiate with Hamas, ignoring that fact that Hamas has been classified as a foreign terrorist organization by the U.S. State Dept.

Those who uphold such a double standard are anti-Semitic; they single out Jews and Israel for condemnation, while hardly ever saying a word about the disastrous human rights abuses, corruption, oppression, injustice and barbarity occurring on a daily basis in the entire Arab Muslim world. Tutu, Carter, Obama, Samantha Powers, Ron Paul, et al., along with Europe and the UN, never stop putting inordinate pressure on Israel to make special concessions and cede land to an Arab enemy that is intransigent, unreliable, unreasonable and thoroughly dishonest, an enemy overtly intent on destroying Israel and killing Jews, an enemy which has over the years, time and again, shown no real interest in peaceful coexistence with Israel.

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Posted by reuvenc
01/04/2012  at  11:59 PM
Wait a second..

Dan, the ridiculous right-wing Christian group that you speak of is in a coalition of Israel advocates with the likes of Tikvah and Nestel’s group.  This isn’t just at Berkeley but on campuses across the country.  They actively work together- this isn’t a one time speaker event, but a coalition.  Your analogy is more apt if, say, a municipality was having an..idk..pro-America rally during the Fourth of July and invited the KKK to participate and co-host it. 

And on your point re: Kesher and JVP.  Again, we’re talking about J Street U here, not these other organizations.  I spend a lot of time combating critics from both the right and the left, and I can tell you that J Street has no love from the likes of JVP and other BDS advocates.  Get your facts straight and stop lumping together every organization that you don’t agree with.

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
01/05/2012  at  09:31 AM
Kesher Members in Many Instances = J St. U, reuvenc, and You Know This to be True

As far as the Christian right loonies, they may advocate for Israel but in no other way do they reflect the perspectives of Tikvah and other JSU members. They are nothing beyond the term marginal and only those who oppose Tikvah and other admirable Zionists would lump these Christian crazies together in any serious measure with respected organizations which support Israel…

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Posted by Dave Marshak
01/05/2012  at  09:46 AM
SWU and J Street

This article talks about a meeting I attended where people from these organizations debated. Most of the people in the audience did not distinguish between them. They viewed both of them as apologists for Israel.

http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/62778/civility-in-mideast-debate-crumbles-as-audience-pipes-in/

I am not sure what to think about animosity towards both the Christian left and the Christian right. There are decent people on both sides and it is not in our interest to fight with all of them.

A spirit of animosity does not help us gain allies. Attacking people a lot of people respect leads them to discount everything we say.

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Posted by reuvenc
01/06/2012  at  11:24 AM
Your point Dan?

So some Kesher members are J Street U?  What’s your point?  Perhaps they never got the memo that J Street U opposes things like BDS. Don’t forget that there are also J Street U members in Nestel’s group, including the co-chair.  What’s the logic here?

In terms of the “Christian right loonies”, if they’re so loony, stop working with them, hosting events with them, and tell them to leave the coalition. Why are they more accepted in the “pro-Israel” community than groups like J Street U when their leader states that Jews are responsible for their persecution?  Publicly disavow them and stop pretending that lines are only drawn for perceived liberal group while right wing groups are welcomed with open arms.

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Posted by Dave Marshak
01/06/2012  at  11:41 AM
Pro Israel Community

CUFI is very strongly Pro Israel. That doesn’t mean everyone in the Pro Israel community accepts them. Hagee has said some intemperate things but everyone in CUFI is not responsible for them. Hagee has apologized for some of them. CUFI is just one organization. The Christian right is larger than CUFI. Their support for Israel is appreciated.

The Pro Israel community does not reject J Street. Some in the community do. They want a little tent with only people who think as they do in it.

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Posted by Abraham Miller
01/06/2012  at  12:58 PM
Dan Spitzer Gets it Right

Spitzer gets it right; the rest of you are clinging to a world you’d like to see rather than one that exists.  Debates about Israel are not like debates about education policy.  You can screw up education policy and survive. When you get in bed with Israel’s enemies, you are dealing with an issue of survival.  Saying that Jimmy Carter and Desmond Tutu are good people is beyond naive.  They both hardly ever saw a dictator they didn’t like or an Israeli policy they couldn’t condemn.  The recent book about the American ambassador to Germany in the 1930’s—In the Garden of Beasts—talks about an American foreign policy that was based on distinguishing between good Nazis and bad Nazis.  Nazis you could deal with and those you couldn’t.  In this case, history does repeat itself, first as tragedy and now as farce. American foreign policy had a big tent that included good Nazis, while German Jews were pushed out from the foreign service.  Thank God for Dan Spitzer!! He understands history.  The rest of you are engaged in wishful thinking.

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Posted by Dave Marshak
01/06/2012  at  03:58 PM
Nazis

Talking as if leading and well respected Christians are like Nazis is not realism and does not show a good understanding of history. What do we do about all the Christians who admire them? We can’t reason with them if we shun them.

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Posted by Abraham Miller
01/07/2012  at  09:00 PM
Nazis

You are correct, David.  I missed Spitzer’s comment about the Christian Zionists.  There he is wrong.  I not only advocate speaking to them; I also support them—including CUFI—financially.  Indeed, money spent in support of Christian Zionists will provide far more assistance to Israel’s cause than anything spent on Hillel or a Jewish Film Festival that showcases anti-Israel propaganda and a Jewish Federation incapable of doing anything about it except harass those who complain. I don’t care what Hagee said twenty some years ago.  I judge him by what he does now, and I welcome his support. Hugo Black was once a Klansman, who as a member of the Supreme Court wrote and supported some of the best decisions ever handed down. Some people learn from their mistakes and become better for it.  Hagee numbers among those. I’d take Hagee over a large number of our so called local “Jewish leaders.” And if fundamentalist Christians want me to convert when the Rapture comes, when it does, I’ll be happy to do so.

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Posted by Abraham Miller
01/08/2012  at  01:56 PM
What are the facts, Concerned Student?

Natan Nestle provided more facts than he needed to, and you only obfuscate the issues.  One statement by B’Tselm’s CEO no more repudiates the work B’Tselem did to create the Goldstone Report than one swallow makes a spring.  Anyone who followed Goldstone knows that B’Tselem provided a disproportionate amount of the misleading data that Goldstone later repudiated. NIF provides support a host of anti-Israel organizations—including Coalition of Women for Peace which joined with Students for Justice in Palestine in showcasing Dalit Baum, a woman who claims she has cost Israel billions in exports.  Dalit Baum spoke in San Francisco in Feb. of 2010.  Before entering the room attendees were asked to sign a person BDS petition. NIF can claim it does not directly support BDS, but it supports organizations that do.  I don’t comprehend why B’Tselem and NIF just don’t take pride in what they do and admit it.  They are like Arafat, one message to the faithful and one message to the outside world. After all, how is NIF a Jewish organization when half its money comes from a mysterious Filipino woman with an address in Hong Kong and a relationship to George Soros, a man who claimed that turning in Hungarian Jews to the Nazis was the most exciting period of his life.  Is that specific enough for you, Concerned Student?  If not, here is a list that NIF funded Coalition of Women for Peace solicited for:  Machson Watch, Women in Black, New Profile, Womens Justice League for Peace and Freedom.  Anyone who believes these organizations have Israel’s right to exist at heart is naive, if not just stupid.

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Posted by Ilene Sokoloff
01/09/2012  at  08:09 PM
Applause for the Students at Berkeley who Voted Not to Accept J Street U and for Natan and the Facts

Natan has it correct. The students who voted not to include J Street U acted correctly and with courage. I applaud them.

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Posted by Shalom&ahava;
01/09/2012  at  08:24 PM
I agree with every word!

Jstreet like to say they’re Jewish, pro israel, pro peace and balanced.
However, the only true part about the above is that they are mostly Jewish. I have never heard of them bringing in a speaker who is balanced, or have any fair discussion.
people who support those who burn it down, shouldn’t be surprised when they are unwanted.

Terrorists world wide would be thrilled to hear about j stree

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Posted by eric
01/09/2012  at  10:04 PM
JStreet U & Tents

Some of the previous comments suggest that the author and so called “right wing” elements are trying to block certain organizations from espousing their negative attitudes towards Israel.  I found nothing in the author’s article that suggests that this is his aim.  What is under discussion is what type of dialogue should be integrated into the American Jewish dialogue “under the tent”.  JStreet, Jewish Voice for Peace and the many, many other organizations which proclaim to be pro-Israel yet spend all their energies bashing any/all activities in the Jewish State have all the rights guaranteed under our constitution to bash Israel as much as they can… and they do.  What is being argued is that these groups don’t belong “under the tent” because they do nothing to present a balanced picture of what is really happening because they insist on presenting a non-stop negative portrayal of anything the government does.
I have yet to see any activity in which JStreet has actually commended this or previous Israeli government or sponsored speakers that actually showed Israel in a good light.  Israel makes mistakes and it has its flaws.  It also has an incredibly dynamic and strong democracy, with a press that is freer than what is here in the US.  Unfortunately, JStreet, NIF and their ilk spend all their time and funds on the former and nothing on the latter.  How is that, according to JStreet, balanced?

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Posted by Dave Marshak
01/09/2012  at  11:13 PM
NIF

“NIF is focused on an Israel at peace with itself. We exist to help close the gaps and heal the rifts in Israel’s bewilderingly diverse and often fractious society. We believe that the best, and indeed the only, way to do this is to support those working to strengthen liberal democratic values in Israel, and increasingly, to take a leadership role in what Israelis are calling the “democratic camp.” That democratic and humanistic values are under attack like never before is, I believe, the great challenge to those of us who support Israel as a pluralistic, tolerant and just society.”

http://www.nif.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1285:5-january-2012&catid=15:general

Daniel Sokatch is very well respected in the SF Bay Area and elsewhere.

I wonder how many people are in the very small and tight knit tent some people here view themselves as in.

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Posted by revoluzionist
01/23/2012  at  12:56 AM
Mentioned on StopJstreet

Great post! we have been covering this on StopJstreet. we have Reposted on https://www.facebook.com/StopjStreet

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Posted by Jeremy Lizt
01/23/2012  at  06:23 PM
The New Israel Fund encourages open, civil debate

The New Israel Fund encourages open, civil debate. Please read http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/64005/new-israel-fund-is-pro-israel-and-pro-peace/comment/

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Posted by DougS
02/18/2013  at  04:28 PM
Natan still fighting the fight

I was an old colleague of Natan and heard from a friend of ours he was still fighting the fight and hear I see he is. Keep it up Natan as Israel needs all the support it needs and all Jews need to support it too and not be swayed by leftists with other agendas.

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