Thursday, October 13, 2011 | return to: news & features, local


National ‘Jewish Heroes’ contest axes Bay Area nominee for JVP connection

by dan pine, staff writer

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Until late last week, Cecilie Surasky had been riding high in the top 10 of the Jewish Community Heroes online contest, with more than 1,400 votes to her name.

On Oct. 7, she went from hero to zero.

Organizers from the Jewish Federations of North America dropped Surasky from the contest because of her role as deputy director of the Oakland-based Jewish Voice for Peace, a group they say espouses views antithetical to the mission of Jewish federations.

According to a statement, Surasky and another nominee, JVP national executive director Rebecca Vilkomerson, were removed because JFNA “cannot recognize individuals whose organization supports the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement against Israel, while JFNA is strongly advocating … to counter BDS and other efforts to isolate and weaken the Jewish State.”

Cecilie Surasky
Cecilie Surasky
“Part of me thought it might happen, but I was pretty shocked when it did,” Surasky said. “They certainly have the right to set the rules as they see fit. They can disqualify people. But there’s a bigger issue at stake. Well after nominations closed, well after thousands voted, they essentially declared their votes null and void.”

Now in its third year, the contest solicits the public for nominees who exemplify Jewish community activism. Submissions closed on Sept. 27, with more than 330 people from across the country on the list. Surasky was among six Bay Area nominees this year. The ultimate winner, chosen by a panel of 18 judges, will be announced in December. The top Hero will receive $25,000, with four runners-up taking home $1,000 each.

Though pro-Israel activists noticed JVP members had been nominated and brought it to the attention of contest officials, JFNA spokesman Joe Berkofsky said the decision to remove nominees was “totally our own” and not subject to outside pressure.

He also said his organization was within its rights to remove the names of Surasky and Vilkomerson.

“The point of the contest is to recognize people doing great work in the community,” he said. “The rules expressly state that the people and the project have to support the mission of the federations. It can’t be something that goes against that. JVP very clearly supports BDS.”

Jewish Voice for Peace considers itself a peace organization working to end the Israeli presence in the West Bank, Gaza and east Jerusalem. It also states on its website that it “defends activists’ right to use the full range of BDS tactics,” and it supports the “Palestinian refugees’ right of return … including return, compensation and/or resettlement.”

San Francisco pro-Israel activist Dr. Mike Harris of StandWithUs/SF Voice for Israel said some of his organization’s members wrote emails to JFNA expressing their displeasure that JVP officials had made the list.

He also said JFNA did the right thing in removing Surasky and Vilkomerson because, he said, they were nominated “on false pretenses.”

“Their work is not in the spirit of the work of the federations,” Harris said. “The mission of the federations includes support of Israel. The work of JVP consistently undermines Israel as a Jewish state. More specifically, the federations have a rule against supporting BDS activities.”

Another rule on the Heroes website declares that organizers reserve the right to change the contest rules as necessary. Just as Surasky and Vilkomerson’s names were scrubbed, an addendum to the rules went up: “Nominees are not eligible if they were nominated for a cause that runs directly counter to the ideals of [JFNA].”

That did not sit well with Surasky.

“What kind of a contest is it when you write in the fine lines that you can move the goal posts in the middle,” she said, “where it says ‘Nominate your Jewish hero,’ but some Jews are OK, and some are not?”

Harris thinks the views embraced by JVP are “outside the community tent, because they refuse to simply support Israel as a Jewish state.

“They are throwing Molotov cocktails at the tent, and at the same time they’re demanding to be let into it and be part of official Jewish community activities,” Harris said, adding that allowing JVP leaders to be nominated in the Heroes project is “no different from an anti-abortion activist entering a Planned Parenthood contest.”

Berkofsky hopes the Jewish community will focus on the positive aspects of the 3-year-old Heroes project, such as last year’s winner, Jay Feinberg, who used his prize money to expand his Gift of Life Bone Marrow Foundation and actually saved lives because of it.

“We’re really proud of the Jewish Heroes contest,” Berkofsky said. “We’ve been able to recognize many deserving heroes, and it’s helped our winners expand their volunteerism efforts. We feel there is a much bigger picture.”


Posted by Michael Harris
10/13/2011  at  05:22 PM
Let's have this discussion

JVP keeps trying to insinuate its way into Jewish community institutions. But they have never been able to articulate any reason why those institutions should open up to a group that disagrees with a major component of their missions—that is, any reason beyond “We’re Jewish, or at least some of us are, or at least we say we are when we want to use our Jewishness to bash Israel while showing anti-Israel films on Yom Kippur”. 
So, to Cecilie or any other JVP spokespeople:  You do have one (and only one) community activity that is open to you—and that is getting written about in j weekly.  Since you are a part of the anti-Israel scene in the Bay Area, that gets you some news coverage. 
So I will offer you a debate in the pages of j:  “Should JVP be allowed to participate in Jewish community institutions?”  Dan Pine (who you must admit treats you quite fairly) can moderate the discussion and report on it.  I am not going to debate you in a public forum in a synagogue or JCC, but since you already get reported on here, this can be a private discussion that will be published.

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Posted by marshall_schwartz
10/13/2011  at  06:51 PM
False Pretenses

Dan Pine fails to mention one important fact about Cecile Surasky’s “candidacy” as a Jewish Hero:  Her official biography on the contest website conveniently ignored the fact that she is the deputy director of Jewish Voice for Peace.  Just as JVP tries to use its name to conceal its true goal of destroying the State of Israel, Cecile tried to conceal her true political beliefs, knowing full well that to mention them would assure that she would receive almost no support in the contest.  Cecile and JVP swim in a sea of false pretenses, and deserve the heartfelt condemnation of any Jew with an ounce of love for the Jewish people and the State of Israel in their soul.

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Posted by rickibobbi
10/13/2011  at  06:58 PM
Jewish and who cares about Israel

really, now my being Jewish in the US has to mean that I have to stipulate to a set of rules of how I need to behave and think towards Israel?  Where did this conflation between my cultural and religious roots and the state of Israel come from?  Stand with US and now the Jewish Federation are doing a disservice to free speech.  Have the discussion, indeed, you Mr Harris wouldn’t dare, you are the playground bully.

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Posted by gitelsura
10/13/2011  at  07:27 PM
a dark tent

rikkibobbi - well said! 

The Federation is revealed as a Zionist operative, and not an authentic “Jewish” institution.  Theirs is a tent I no longer want to enter.  More and more Jews are walking out as they realize, thanks to the efforts of people like Cecilie, that their faith and its ethical legacy are being hijacked to support a military occupier government that has little to do with Judaism.

Out of the tent!  Into the light!

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/13/2011  at  08:10 PM
Cecile Surasky is an Exemplary Enemy of Half the Jewish People

Cecilie Surasky is as much a Jewish “hero” as Benedict Arnold was an American hero.

Surasky is a head honcho of JVP-aka Jewish Voices for Palestine-who supports BDS vs Israel, thus making the Jewish State vulnerable to destruction by its not-so-lovely neighbors.

And Surasky also is an advocate of violations of free speech, be it her organization’s disruption of Benjamin Netanyahu, JVP’s applause for the curtailment of a concert in London by the Israeli Philharmonic, and JVP’s support for the Muslim Student Union members at UC Irvine who shouted down Israeli Ambassador Oren.

Ms. Surasky and her fellow JVP’ers also support the ridiculous “right of return,” which would transform democratic Israel from a Jewish State to a nation with a Palestinian majority.

Let’s be clear about this:  Surasky and her fellow JVP’ers seek the liquidation of Israeli Jews, either via force resulting by Israel-flagrantly outnumbered by its Arab enemie-not being able to defend itself with sophisticated weaponry garnered by US funds or by permitting Palestinians to swarm into Israel thus forcing a Muslim majority via their imposition upon the now Jewish state of a swarm of refugees dedicated to Israel’s destruction.

Nearly half the Jews of the world live in democratic Israel. And it is the height of hypocrisy to declare one a Jewish hero if their intent is to do harm to the Jewish state as Ms. Surasky clearly does.

In sum, only those who believe in the liquidation of Israel as a Jewish state would find any merit in Ms. Surasky’s nomination as a “Jewish hero.”

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/13/2011  at  08:23 PM
rickibobbi "cares about Israel" as...

much as my cat cares for the field mice he devours in my garden. As for rickibobbi’s condemnation of the Federation, would the NAACP accept as a hero a black person who called for African Americans to be forced out of the US?

And then there is the absurd polemic of gitelsura who makes the nonsensical allegation regularly regurgitated by JVP that an ever-increasing number of Jews are leaving the pro-Israel “tent.”

No, gitelsura, all polls show that a overwhelming number of American Jews support Israel as a Jewish state.

So stop spewing this fiction. And if you wish to leave the tent, good riddance. When you do so, the air inside our community will smell infinitely sweeter…

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Posted by gitelsura
10/13/2011  at  09:59 PM
The Tent Continues to Empty

Dan Spitzer, in his usual measured and fact-based assertions refers to “the nonsensical allegation regularly regurgitated by JVP that an ever-increasing number of Jews are leaving the pro-Israel tent…. all polls show that a overwhelming number of American Jews support Israel as a Jewish state.”

That’s true for older conservative Jews clinging to crumbling institutions like the Federation.  Not so for the upcoming generation.  On May 12, 2010, Peter Beinart’ famously wrote “Failure of the American Jewish Establishment” for the New York Review of Books.  He referred to several recent studies that “revealed, in the words of Steven Cohen of Hebrew Union College and Ari Kelman of the University of California at Davis, that “non-Orthodox younger Jews, on the whole, feel much less attached to Israel than their elders,” with many professing “a near-total absence of positive feelings.”

“Particularly in the younger generations, fewer and fewer American Jewish liberals are Zionists; fewer and fewer American Jewish Zionists are liberal. One reason is that the leading institutions of American Jewry have refused to foster—indeed, have actively opposed—a Zionism that challenges Israel’s behavior in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and toward its own Arab citizens. For several decades, the Jewish establishment has asked American Jews to check their liberalism at Zionism’s door, and now, to their horror, they are finding that many young Jews have checked their Zionism instead.”

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/13/2011  at  10:12 PM
One Study Does Not A Truthful Theory Make

When an ideologue wishes to buttress a false hypothesis, with a plethora of studies to draw from there is always at least one which said ideologue can cite to justify a flagrant untruth. JVP and its Israel-loathing toadies latch on to such nonsense as we see referenced above and then try to promulgate it as the gospel.

As an ex-academic, I have seen this time and again. But gitulsura, you are not going to convince any intelligent reader of this site with such blather. This may work with those few Jews who, for whatever neutrotic and/or narcissistic reason, hold the Middle East’s sole true democracy in contempt. But no one with any neurons functioning is going to take such sewage seriously…

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/13/2011  at  10:20 PM
Supporters of Surasky, Please Identify Yourselves

Readers of J on line know that most Zionists who post here, such as Mike Harris, Sol Rosenberg, Jack Kessler, and your truly have no qualms about giving our name. We stand behind what we say and don’t hide behind a screen moniker.

gitelsura and rockibobbi and other JVP anti-Israel advocates, why don’t you post under your given name? I suspect that you are too embarrassed to identify yourselves as the overtly biased manufacturers of such malarky. If this isn’t true, don’t be ashamed—let us know who you are…

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Posted by rfaelmoshe
10/13/2011  at  10:29 PM
"Jews for a flat earth"

There are people with a Jewish ancestor in every fringe movement in the Bay Area.  So what?  One’ accidental ancestry doesn’t make one’s political opinions about Israel any more persuasive.  It’s simple, there’s factual Jewish History and then there’s a collection of politically motivated myths, lies and fabrications popularly called the “Palestinnian narrative.”  somewhere in the Muslim world someone is referring to the JVP as “useful idiots.”

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Posted by Shalom Grunberg
10/13/2011  at  10:33 PM
Questions for the Debate

It’s a positive sign to see Mike willing to debate Cecile, though I’m not at all clear why he won’t do it in public.
I’ve got questions for both: Mike, why are you and the Federations so averse to letting people form their own opinions by giving JVP’s viewpoints full airing?  Many of their positions are echoed by many in Israel - are those Israelis considered outside your tent as well?
And to Cecile: JVP’s message seems muddled - it seems that at times BDS is just against companies doing business in the occupied territories; in others, it appears that it’s against any Israeli business or even cultural group. Your mission is clear that you support both Israelis’ and Palestinians’ right to self determination; yet many of the organizations in the BDS movement, which you ally with, are not clear that they support Israelis’ rights. Why do you seek alliances with them? JVP calls for Jerusalem to be shared jointly by those of all religions, what is its vision for the Jewish nature of the state of Israel?
Here’s to getting at some specifics and past the dismissals, vagaries, and fear.
Shalom Grunberg
PS: I am not at all clear why Dan Spitzer’s attacks are not considered violations of the guidelines that the J has established calling for civility.

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/13/2011  at  10:49 PM
Apparently, Mr. Grunberg Can't Handle the Truth...

Hence, he calls it a “lack of civility.”

Well Herr Grunberg, when JVP calls for the “right of return” which anyone capable of logic understands that will mean the end of Israel, is that not the ultimate in lack of civility? When JVP champions a people who have democratically elected a political party which openly advocates genocide vs Jews everywhere, is that not “lack of civility?”

But Herr Grunberg, I will give you your due. At least you are not so embarrassed at the notion that you might shame yourself that unlike your JVP pals, you actually deign to give your name.. Correspondingly, I will be sufficiently “civil” and thank you for that…

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Posted by UC Berkeley student
10/14/2011  at  04:54 AM
to Shalom Grunberg - it's

to Shalom Grunberg -

it’s refreshing to hear someone acutally asking something instead of stigmatizing.

There very clear guidelines for BDS. They get deliberately “muddled” by people who want to present any non-violent resistance as a form of antisemitism. Boycotts are not directed towards individual Israelis, certainly not towards Jews, but towards *institutions*. For example, “the individual product of an Israeli cultural worker per se is not boycottable, regardless of its content or merit” - The targets are usually institutions, companies, offcial representatives of the state that have been shown to be complicit with the occupation or with the official PR efforts.

JVP takes no position on the one-state/two-state issue, which means it recognizes the right of Israelis for self-determination but does not decide in advance whether those rights should be expressed within a separate jewish state or within one state with equal rights for all its citizens. Leading proponents of BDS, such as Ali Abunimah, have written extensively about the idea of one state promoting equality. If you read him you will realize this is sincere and not some kind of antisemitic conspiracy, but of course there will always be those who prefer to stigmatize.

People who are against BDS offer very little constructive alternatives in terms of creating pressure to change the current dynamic. Dialogue groups aren’t going to end the occupation.

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/14/2011  at  06:59 AM
Any Reasonable Person Knows that...

JVP would like BDS to consist of ending any US military aid to Israel. Tell me “uc student” and other JVP’ers if this is not true. I’m certain you will not. And what this means, of course, would be Israel’s ultimate destruction by the far superior Arab force of numbers.

Moreover, no matter how much Palestinians and their JVP pals may spin it, the “single state solution” arising from the so-called “right of return” would mean an Arab majority in Israel, thus liquidating the Jewish state.

So “uc student,” please don’t think you are deceiving anyone with this absurd spin. You and your JVP affiliates are delusional if they believe this to be the case.

For the jVP’ers who post here: what do you think of the Hamas covenant advocating the killing of Jews everywhere, along of course with Israel in particular?

And are you and other JVP supporters willing to express ANY opinion on Palestinian suppression of women, honor murder, their brutalization of gays, and thorough quashing of dissenters? You are always so silent on any matter other than your denigration of Israel. Do please, for once, show a bit of integrity and let us know what you think about such matters…

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Posted by Michael Harris
10/14/2011  at  09:24 AM
To Shalom

There are two reasons that I wouldn’t debate JVP leaders in a public setting.  One is my point that they don’t deserve the implicit legitimization of a forum within a Jewish community setting.  I also wouldn’t want to give such a forum to activists from other anti Israel groups (MECA,ISM etc). The other is that it would turn into somewhat of a circus—I have had the experience of speaking to an audience packed with JVP and ISM members! 
Now if Michael Krasny or another radio host wants to do another show similar to when he had Doug Kahn and also Barbara Lubin from MECA, then I could do that. However, I don’t speak for the Federation or the JCRC, just for myself and SWU/SF Voice for Israel.
JVP and other anti Israel groups have plenty of opportunity to spread their misinformation and their promotion of BDS.  My position is that our Jewish community institutions don’t have to offer them even more of a forum.

And indeed there are very clear guidelines for BDS; and they include (as does JVP’s own loyalty oath) supporting the fictional “right” of return for descendants of Palestinian refugees from the failed attempt to prevent Israel’s birth in 1947-8.

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Posted by Cadance M
10/14/2011  at  09:55 AM
Jewish Voice for Peace does not meet Better Business Bureau standards

Mr. Schwartz has asked why Cecilie Surasky did not mention her affiliation with “Jewish Voice for Peace” in her biography on the Jewish Heroes Website.  Perhaps she realized that anyone exploring the web would realize that the venerable Better Business Bureau (BBB) has stated that JVP does not meet its minimal organizational standards for accountability and transparency. Is the Better Business bureau also a playground bully? Are they acting as “gatekeepers?” Or are they just setting reasonable standards that they expect their members to embrace? 

I would never deny Cecilie the right to have her son bar mitzvahed in a synagogue.  I would never deny Cecilie the right to be buried in a Jewish cemetary.  I would never deny her the right to worship in our community. I would stand in opposition to those who might.  These are universal to all Jews.  But I cant for the life of me think of any reason we’d give her, or any fringe group (Neuteri Karta?  Jews for Jewish?) carte blanche to run roughshod over our community institutions with their political agenda.

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Posted by UC Berkeley student
10/14/2011  at  10:07 AM
thanks, Dan

I was trying to explain how the stigmatization works, and you just provided a great demonstration. So whenever someone mentions Palestinian groups who support BDS within a human rights framework (such as Abunimah, or the PACBI steering committee that I linked to),as part of a call for equality in Israel/Palestine between jews and palestinians, you realize this sounds too reasonable. So you change the subject to “Hamas hates gay people”. And others warn of a “circus” if people get to argue their opinion - that like the U.S. Israel should have full formal equality between its citizens. You can’t fool all of the people all the time, eventually people will see through this.

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Posted by UC Berkeley student
10/14/2011  at  10:19 AM
wanting to live where your

wanting to live where your family lived for generations is neither a crime nor a genocidal conspiracy. It doesn’t have to involve displacing anyone. One more issue that people try to bury by creating panic.

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Posted by Theresa
10/14/2011  at  10:28 AM
TO UC Berkeley Student

It would be much easier to take you seriously if we saw you codemning the fact that selling land to Jews in the West Bank is punishable by the death penalty
It would be much easier to take you seriously you issued a statement denouncing the Palestinian leadership that recently announced a “Jew Free” Palestine,7340,L-4122473,00.html

For all the calls for “equality and justice”, I simply can not remember the last time an anti-Israel activist took the Palestinian leadership to task for their mysogyny, their homophobia, or even for their Jew-hate.

Still need to be convinced that Palestine will be the next “apartheid” state?  Just check the Hamas charter which states:
“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.” (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

“The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. “

“There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.”

What does “moderate” Fatah say?  Its not much better.  From their draft consitution:

“Arabic and Islam are the official Palestinian language and religion.”

“The principles of Islamic Shari’a are a major source for legislation.”

Thats some secular democratic state you are promoting, UC Berkeley student

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Posted by ajewforjustice
10/14/2011  at  10:32 AM
Better Business Bureau? Jewish Voice for Peace is Not in Violation of BBB Standards

Candace M.‘s comments are absolutely false.

Not sure where she was looking, or what organization she was looking at, but this is absolutely untrue!!!!

Jewish Voice for Peace is not listed in the BBB website at all.  And, as is clearly stated on that website, “Businesses are under no obligation to seek BBB accreditation, and some businesses are not accredited because they have not sought BBB accreditation.”

Jewish Voice for Peace is a valid 501(c)(3) organization!

Do your research!

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Posted by Cadance M
10/14/2011  at  10:50 AM

My apologies. I confused JVP with last weeks questionable non-profit, the Middle East Children’s alliance, MECA which fails to meet BBB standards.  All these anti-Israel organizations are begining to look the same to me but I apologize for that. 

Looking at JVP’s 501 c 3 statement, however I am astonished by how much time JVP spends lobbying.  Is this a new emphasis for Jewish Voice for Peace?

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/14/2011  at  10:54 AM
Actually, uc student, People See Through You

Your justification that the ridiculous “right of return” would mean simply moving a family back to where it lived considerably more than a half century ago-absurd in itself as virtually all other “refugees” on the planet long ago defined other residential sectors as their home-ignores the most pertinent point.

This is to say that you refuse to acknowledge that moving the Palestinians AND all their irresponsibly high birth rate offspring into Israel would flood Israel with scores sworn to destroy it AND would by force of sheer number liquidate the Jewish State.

Well, that’s simply not going to happen. No people commits suicide (other than Arab homicide bombers) and certainly not the Israelis.

And, of course, you refuse to tender any criticism toward the Palestinians for their overt misogyny, brutalization of gays, and the torture and murder of dissidents. Perhaps one might conclude that these issues are not valued by you and your JVP pals…

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Posted by Cadance M
10/14/2011  at  11:12 AM
This was from JVP. Double checked!

How dare you accuse Stand with us and the Federation of interferring with free speech, when JVP not only practices the muzzling of dissent, but eagarly exhorts and encourages others to do so as well?

JVP’s last mailing literally chortled about their very own stiffling of free expression.  The mailing from Amirah Mizrahi, Antonia House, and Emily Ratner began

“When we disrupted Israeli Prime Minister Benyamin Netanyahu’s keynote speech at the Jewish Federations of North America’s annual general meeting last November ...”

Hypocrites?  Clearly.

The only voices that JVP will allow are their own and those of their supporters.  They would never allow the level of discourse here at the J at any of their blogs or websites.

Take this as a personal challenge JVP.  Lets move this conversation over to your house, Jewish Voice for Peace.  No?  Why not?  What are you afraid of?

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/14/2011  at  12:08 PM
Candance, JVP Also States They Supported...

the curtailment of the Israeli Philharmonic’s concert in London sponsored by the BBC thanks to a pro-Palestinian disruption.

Furthermore, JVP came out in support of the Muslim Student Union’s disruption of Israeli Ambassador Oren.

And when it comes to JVP railing on behalf of “human rights,” they never have once condemned the Hamas charter which calls for the killing of Jews everywhere.

Can we say HYPOCRITES?!

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Posted by Lincoln Shlensky
10/14/2011  at  12:34 PM
Surasky v. the Fed: analysis needed

It’s good to see the J’s Dan Pine covering this story more fully than in last week’s issue. It’s appropriate the Fed and Surasky air their differences: clearly, there is a significant distance between the two as to whether the Fed’s contest rules were a) fair to begin with; b) applied fairly to Surasky and JVP or wielded arbitrarily.

Now we need some analysis of this conflict. It’s fine to have a he-said, she-said report on the controversy, but let us have some careful thinking about it, too. A J editorial would be helpful, but even more helpful would be two opposing commentaries on the matter that would allow J readers to evaluate the claims of Surasky and the Fed reported here.

My view is that the Fed is cutting off its nose to spite its face. Removing Surasky from contention was a desperation move, not the considered action of an organization that feels confident that it represents Jews in the existing community tent. This is not new: let us not forget that the San Francisco JCRC, the organization that creates the official community tent, banned JVP from participating years ago. So to say that JVP is “throwing molotov cocktails” at the tent, as one commentator above does, has the story backwards. JVP would happily enter the tent, I believe, if the walls were not defined in such a narrow and narrowly parochial fashion.

Surasky and JVP have had to redefine the tent, therefore, and are doing so successfully, if the role of the organization in shaping public conversation on the occupation, bringing the public around to positions JVP has long advocated, and generating interest especially among young Jewish activists, are any measure.

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Posted by rfaelmoshe
10/14/2011  at  12:34 PM
Accepting myths as history

The reason that well read Jewish people reject JVP’s positions is because those positions are premised on myths pretending to be history. They have mistaken an anti-Israel Arab political collective identity of “Palestinian” for an ethnic or tribal group, while not comprehending the “peoplehood” of the Jewish people. JVP also misattributes motivation to both Jews and Arabs, with the wrong headed notion that Arabs want to live in peace with a Jewish State, when their real position has consistently been that Jews must be dispersed as a minority population under Islamic authority, with NO political rights. So Jews that read don’t support JVP etc. Jews that only read bumper stickers in Berkeley just might be naive enough though.

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/14/2011  at  01:00 PM
Shlensky--You Jest

“Surasky and JVP have had to redefine the tent, therefore, and are doing so successfully, if the role of the organization in shaping public conversation on the occupation, bringing the public around to positions JVP has long advocated, and generating interest especially among young Jewish activists, are any measure.”

Mr. Shlensky, what alternative universe do you live in? No informed person believes JVP has had any substantial impact upon anyone but themselves.

Shlensky’s perspective is fine for those like JVP who sit around ratifying their own opinions and have no sense of successfully communicating to anyone else. In this organization’s sorry case, it is clear that incest is best…

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Posted by UC Berkeley student
10/14/2011  at  01:46 PM
Dan Spitzer, please denounce the Holocaust

because your name sounds vaugely German to me, I’m going to assume you’re pro-Nazi. If not, you need to prove it to me. Because I said so.

Does that sound idiotic? not any more than demanding that a Jewish organization should prove to you that it doesn’t support Hamas’ anti-jewish charter. Do you just get to declare any jews you like as antisemites until they get your official approval? how many denunciations does that require? can they be done all together, or should they be repeated on a daily basis?

again, one more way of distracting attention from the issues through the usual demonization.

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Posted by UC Berkeley student
10/14/2011  at  02:15 PM
omg, Palestinians who want equality!

help! these Palestinian supporters of BDS are advocating “a system of government founded on “the principle of equality in civil, political, social and cultural rights for all citizens”.

someone quote the Hamas charter, quick! we need to shift attention! all the Palestinians are the same, there can’t be any differences, and none of them deserve equality. Imagine if everyone started advocating for equal political rights, where would we be??

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/14/2011  at  03:41 PM
ucstudent asks, "Doesn't that Sound Idiotic?"

Actually, no more than your other pronouncements.

Many of us have been critical of Israel on some issues (I have often criticized Netanyahu’s policies on this site), yet we are strong supporters of Israel’s right to exist, its equalitarian treatment of women, the fact that both Jew and Israel’s 20% Arab population are subject to the same laws, that Israel-while not flawless-is one of the strongest supporters of gay rights on the planet, and that all Israelis have full rights to dissent. And no one in the Israeli government has ever called for Arab genocide.

On the hand, JVP refuses to condemn Hamas for advocating Jewish genocide, it ignores Palestinian subjugation of women, honor murder of daughters, brutalization of gays, indoctrination of children from grade school on to grow up to become Jewish killing shaheed (martyrs), and its torture and/or murder of dissidents.

Many of us criticize China, the Arab world, Cuba, most African regimes, and a few societies in Latin America for their human and political rights failings. But for JVP and their comrades, the Palestinians appear to be infallible and their manifest abrogation of human rights is never a subject examined by JVP. Now why is that?

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Posted by Theresa
10/14/2011  at  04:48 PM
The Rules need changing

If the Jewish Federation had limited participation in this contest to those who had contributed financially to them, how many votes would these fringe characters actually receive?  If anyone with a keyboard and internet access can vote (over and over ) how reflective of community standards is this contest?

Incidently, CAIR is having a banquet celebrating Muslim heros.  They aren’t taking any changes having someone like Irshad Manji nominated. The public is completly removed from the nominating and voting process.

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Posted by Jack Kessler
10/14/2011  at  06:59 PM
We Want It In Writing

Gitelsura has repeatedly threatened to leave the tent of the Jewish community.  Really?  Do you promise to never come back?  Please promise never to come back.  Even better can you put it in writing that you will never come back? 

And since you have left the tent/Jewish community you no longer have any reason to pester us with your hateful opinions in this Jewish community newspaper.

Goodbye Gitelsure, and please stay gone.

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Posted by Michael Harris
10/14/2011  at  10:16 PM
Lincoln makes it quite clear

At least Lincoln is honest about what JVP stands for; let’s drop all the BS about JVP not being anti-Israel.

Lincoln wrote above: “JVP would happily enter the tent, I believe, if the walls were not defined in such a narrow and narrowly parochial fashion.”

You can go to the JCRC website ( and look up the mission statement. You can judge if this statment is “narrowly parochial”:

“Working toward a secure and vibrant Israel by promoting a strong America/Israel relationship based on the recognition of the State of Israel as the pluralistic, democratic, historical, cultural, religious, and national homeland of the Jewish people.”

JVP openly admits that it cannot accept this statement.  So the only choices are, as Lincoln points out, to try to change the organization or not to take part in it.  Having failed at the former, they are—with every public action they take—actively seeking to undermine it and act against it.
Sorry Lincoln, organizations stand for a set of principles. Though I am not acting as a spokesperson for JCRC, their mission clearly supports Israel.  JVP clearly stands for BDS, for eliminating the State of Israel as “the pluralistic, democratic, historical, cultural, religious, and national homeland of the Jewish people,” and for closing down debate that they disagree with. 
Since my initial post above, I have yet to read a cogent statement as to why JCRC, Federation, or any other community institution should abandon its support of Israel (except for JVPers saying “because we want you to”).  I guess Jon Haber had it right:

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/15/2011  at  06:59 AM
While Surasky is the Polar Opposite of Jewish Hero, She Could Have Won this Award

I’ve started a contest for “Jewish Zero.” Among the local contenders are Michael Lerner, Barbara Lubin, Dennis Bernstein and yes, our own beloved Cecile Surasky.

JVP’ers, vote to your heart’s content.

First prize, one week in Gaza City wearing a t-thirt imprinted with a Star of David. ‘Course, one would not survive a single minute, let alone a week, but who is counting?

So come on, JVP’ers. Please send Cecile to Gaza…

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Posted by rfaelmoshe
10/15/2011  at  09:31 PM
" a half truth is a whole lie"

If these ” anti- Zionists” have a truthful, persuasive position, why do they find it necessary to lie and deceive? A JVP stalwart doesn’t list her JVP affiliation, “the other” takes part of a quote about warfare out of full context, then they say “peace” and advocate policies that will lead to war! The reason that “anti- Zionists” resent the real history of the Arab-Israeli conflict is that history and facts don’t support their positions. But, like the ” anti-Zionist”  Illan Pappe’ said,“it’s not about the truth. It’s about advancing an agenda.”

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Posted by Theresa
10/15/2011  at  09:33 PM
Manis was misquoted

Its possible the people who despise JVP outnumber the people that despise Manis Friedman. Or its possible that people looked up Friendman, and realize he was misquoted. Perhaps his entry in this contest was a way of making ammends to this man for the falsehoods spoken about him. Or its possible that the people who objected to his entry never actually wrote in to the Federation .

Attempts by the rabbi to correct this quote were not successful,  Rabbi Friedman released a statement addressing this:
“It is obvious, I thought, that any neighbor of the Jewish people should be treated, as the Torah commands us, with respect and compassion. Fundamental to the Jewish faith is the concept that every human being was created in the image of G-d, and our sages instruct us to support the non-Jewish poor along with the poor of our own brethren. The sub-question I chose to address instead is: how should we act in time of war, when our neighbors attack us, using their women, children and religious holy places as shields. I attempted to briefly address some of the ethical issues related to forcing the military to withhold fire from certain people and places, at the unbearable cost of widespread bloodshed (on both sides!)—when one’s own family and nation is mercilessly targeted from those very people and places”

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/16/2011  at  07:30 AM
Remember, theother, What Hamas and Fatah's charter call for...

Whether or not the rabbi said what you wrote is unimportant. Every religious group has individuals who might say something untoward.

But the duly elected Palestinian leaders openly call for genocide, just as did the Third Reich. And JVP supports these lowlifes, which foolish members like theother know very well to be true but refuse to acknowledge the fact that their organization is thus anti-Semitic because it champions a people who advocate Jewish genocide.

Those JVP’ers who won’t affirm this are either delusional or illiterate—perhaps both.

Correspondingly, the stench in the tent emanates from JVP’ers whenever they intrude upon it. So please theother and your JVP pals, leave or stay out so that we won’t be asphyxiated…

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Posted by auntie
10/16/2011  at  02:30 PM
Danny, bubbala

Danny, bubbala.  Listen to your Auntie Semite.  Enough with the big mouth.  The neighbors are talking.  And stop saying those crazy things about your cousins.  Most of your cousins are real menches.  They’re suffering like crazy.  Why aren’t you standing up for their rights, like all those nice Israelis in the Sheikh Jarrah movement and the Negev Coexistence Forum?

Try to think a thought without the words “genocide” or “Hamas Charter”.  How come you never even mention the Palestinian call for equal rights for all, that the very menschy student from UCB posted? 

Sometimes, Dannala, I get a bad feeling that you are more excited about being hateful than about being a nice Jewish boy who tries to bring a little peace and justice into this world.

Also, boychik, exercise more and get yourself some nice friends already.  “Sol Rosenberg” (what’s that boy’s real name?) is not a good influence.

Also, you should remember, I’m your one and only Auntie Semite.  Don’t keep calling everyone else by my name.

Goodbye and good luck.

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Posted by Theresa
10/16/2011  at  04:35 PM
Im intrigued

The first commenter has made a interesting proposition to JVP:

He wrote  
“So, to Cecilie or any other JVP spokespeople:  You do have one (and only one) community activity that is open to you—and that is getting written about in j weekly.  Since you are a part of the anti-Israel scene in the Bay Area, that gets you some news coverage. 
So I will offer you a debate in the pages of j:  “Should JVP be allowed to participate in Jewish community institutions?”  Dan Pine (who you must admit treats you quite fairly) can moderate the discussion and report on it. “

This would indeed be a fascinating exercise, but it doesn’t appear that JVP has responded. 

JVP, you are being offered a forum to explain why you think the Jewish Community owes you a place at the table.

You should at least give Mr. Harris the courtesy of a response.

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Posted by auntisemite
10/16/2011  at  08:22 PM
I agree with Aunti

Thank you Aunti for such a wise comment. You know all of the filthy comments I read—Oy—it makes me a bisseleh misoogah;  I don’t think the name calling is necessary.  We’re Jews;  some of us think the Occupation is tsuris.  (You’ll pardon my spelling, please).  Names you shouldn’t be called if you disagree;  I agree with that.  Now, I have to go;  my brisket is burning! A shonda!

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Posted by Shalom Grunberg
10/16/2011  at  09:31 PM
Year of Civil Discourse - still on?

I have to say that the tone of the dialogue is pretty disappointing. It quickly plummeted to name calling, attacks, insults. Why is that? Let’s face it: the actions of a few of us in the bay area are probably NOT going to the tipping point in the mideast. Maybe we could approach this with “what can we do constructively to bring peace to Israel and its neighbors” and less “how can I insult the guy one zip code over?” I sure hope that there’s a debate, but only if it’s constructive, and that both sides can agree that reasonable minds can disagree, but that our shared goal should be peace and coexistence. Or is that not a common goal?
Just wondering what folks thought of the piece that Peter Reinhard wrote a year or so back?
I’m not trying to be Pollyanna. I’m just tired of the vitriol, and can’t believe, for a second, that it is constructive or helpful to anyone in the mideast, or anyone here

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Posted by Michael Harris
10/16/2011  at  10:14 PM
To Shalom

Shalom, I’m right with you on the idea of “what can we do to bring peace to Israel and its neighbors?”.  Unfortunately, as much as JVP claims to be about the “occupation”, they have a requirement that any members pledge support of the fictional “right” of return for descendants of Palestinian refugees.  Basically, that means that they don’t accept Israel (at least not as the state of the Jewish people). 
So they have removed themselves from the conversation about peace between Israel and its neighbors.
I’m just asking for a JVP position on this simple statement:

“I support peace between a Jewish state of Israel and an Arab state of Palestine.”

My answer is yes.

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Posted by gitelsura
10/16/2011  at  11:17 PM
Shalom reminds us about civility

I’m afraid that on J comments there’s a calculated campaign by Spitzer and other Stand With Us members to frustrate any kind of substantive discussion about Israel-Palestine.  They like to provoke to outrage, and nothing you can say will deter them from that goal.  Check out the line of comments and you’ll see that when someone like you or UC Student or Shlensky makes a substantive point about the possibility for coexistence, they’ll totally bury that point with racist attacks against Palestinians and personal attacks on the commenter—you’re delusional, or anti-semitic, or stupid, or hate Israel, or whatever. 

Before the new Comments policy recently went into effect, the comments section following articles about Israel-Palestine was a cesspool of hate speech - racist, misogynous, defamatory and obscene—primarily coming from Spitzer and Rosenberg.  It was only after readers called on the editors to intervene that the most filthy comments were removed, and the new “civility” policy went into effect.  That got rid of the obscenities, but as you can the hatefulness remains.

If you’ve any suggestions about getting around this, we would be most interested.  My only thought is that either J has to more actively monitor comments, or we have to consciously ignore the many spoilers who dominate this thread, and talk to each other above the din of their noise.  For myself, I feel like the comments room has been hijacked by thugs, and it
just gets so exhausting. 

It would be nice if we could just move to another room, but J really doesn’t offer another venue for having the discussion.  J promotes the Federation’s perspective on all things Israel: “love of Israel”, loyalty to it, insistence on “a Jewish state” over a democratic one. and opposition to the BDS movement are prerequisites for inclusion. The exception is Letters to the Editor, which does publish different perspectives.

Finally, I think you were referring to the article by Peter Beinart (not Reinhard), which I quoted from in an earlier comment titled “The Tent Continues to Empty”, above. The point of Beinart’s article is that the Jewish Establishment is losing younger Jews because of its failure to take an ethical, liberal position with regard to the oppression of Palestinians by Israel.  As you’ll see, the potential for discussion was squashed when Spitzer opined that Beinart’s conclusions were based on “a flagrant untruth” and were “nonsense.”  Not a shred of substance, just attack.

That’s why it’s so appreciated, and refreshing, to have someone like you nudge us to keep in mind what “civil discourse” might look like.

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Posted by dianab
10/16/2011  at  11:33 PM
MORE FICTION: JVP “loyalty oath”; Palestinian “fictional” right of return


(1) Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP) “requires” no “loyalty oath” on anything from any of its members.  JVP holds certain positions, and whether JVP members support those positions or not is entirely a private matter for each member. 

(2) The right of Palestinians or of any other refugees to return to their country of origin is NOT “fictional” but is encapsulated in international law.  See the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, article 13(2) (10 December 1948):  Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.  See also the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and UN General Assembly Resolution 194.  There’s much more, but these documents are good places from which to start.

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Posted by gitelsura
10/17/2011  at  12:34 AM
Michael Harris' Questions

As Mr. Harris well knows, or should know, JVP takes no position on one-state/two state, believing that to be a matter of self-determination for both Israelis and Palestinians.  Individual members of course may believe one or the other solution is best.

The refugee right of return is not “fictional”, as Harris puts it,  but is a pillar of International Law as it developed following the devastation suffered in WWII.  The right of return can be implemented in many ways, including return, resettlement, and compensation.

Statistics suggest the return could be effected without displacing Jewish Israelis, since overwhelmingly the lands within Israel from which the Palestinians were expelled were not repopulated by Jewish Israelis.

The concept of one binational state - which would include a homeland for the Jewish people - is a noble one, and passionately advocated for by such towering figures as Martin Buber, Albert Einstein, and Hannah Arendt.

My question for Mr. Harris is—Am I correct that a “Jewish state” requires a demographic of Jewish majority?  If so, how can that majority be maintained without a system that implements expulsion and/or diminished rights for non-Jewish citizens?  In other words, please explain if and how a Jewish state can be a democratic state. 

Finally, if Mr. Harris is so clear that he supports “peace between a Jewish state of Israel and an Arab state of Palestine”, why has he not spoken up against the 44 year old occupation, the Separation Wall built deep within the West Bank, land confiscation, settlement building and relocation of over 500,000 Israeli Jews to the West Bank, including East Jerusalem.  Under International Law (not fictional) it is illegal for an occupying state to relocate its citizens to the occupied land.

Btselem, Israel’s Human Rights Information Center, reports that with settlements and their vast infrastructure, including Jewish-only highways, over 42% of the West Bank is now controlled by and for Jewish Israeli settlers.

(watch now the demonization which will follow of JVP,me,and maybe also Buber,  Einstein, and Arendt.)

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Posted by Janice
10/17/2011  at  01:10 PM

Dan Spitzer says that a Jew wouldn’t survive for a minute in Gaza. This is absolute baloney and he should know it. I know Jews who have been to Gaza and who have not hidden the fact that they were Jewish. They were accepted and welcomed because they came as friends and not with guns to kill them.
Spitzer they might even accept you if you came as a friend.

Here is an article written by Lillian Rosengarten who traveled to Gaza. In her article she said she never hid the fact that she was Jewish and indeed had more fear of the IDF than she did of Hamas.

For those with the courage to read her article and learn something here is the link:

Lillian is not alone. During the Second Intifada a Jewish friend of mine and her son went to Nablus where they lived with Palestinian families who welcomed them with open arms knowing that they came as friends. Just as Lillian the mother and son feared the IDF far more than the Palestinians. They were correct. One day the IDF kidnapped the son and took him to a settlement where he was held in the hot sun for two days. He was given no food, only a little water. When he was released he was dumped in the hills in the middle of the night where he had to make his way back to Nablus. The IDF kidnappers stole his phone and camera and never gave them back. Par for the course..

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/17/2011  at  02:12 PM
At Last, Truth in Advertising

It is clear that JVP’ers eschew providing their names when posting, either because they are spineless or what they say is too embarrassing to acknowledge that they are the author. But hats off to auntisemite for providing the moniker which best describes JVP members and their pals.

As for gitelsura/janice, it is pretty easy to see that such sewage emanates from the same source. Janice, that’s why most people ignore you—you have been posting the same swill for years and your redundancies are transparent, no matter under which screen moniker you spew them.

Now there is a 1% chance I could be wrong on the above and if indeed gitelsura and Janice are two different JVP’ers, all I can say is that when it comes to pronouncements from that pathetic organization, it’s “Monkey See, Monkey Do.”

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/17/2011  at  02:44 PM
Spineless Janice, One Must Suspect You to Be Paranoid

I wasn’t even at Israel in the Park. I was out of the country.

As for not using your name, I have never heard anyone from the pro-Palestinian minion bothered other than Michael Lerner, and everyone knows how biased he is. Lerner has never kept a secret his contempt for Israel and has always been happy to seek acknowledgement of his loathing for a democratic country containing about half of the world’s remaining Jews.

Hence, you are either paranoid or, as I said, simply embarrassed to let anyone know that you are the author of such unmitigated nonsense. I mean hell, you are so ashamed of what you say that you actually post under more than one screen name…

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/17/2011  at  02:46 PM
Addendum: ISM'er Found Murdered in Gaza

The vast majority of those who support Israel, like me, post under their own name. On the other hand, Israel-loathing JVP’ers, ISM’ers, and J Streeters are prone to adopting screen names lest they embarrass themselves so egregiously in public…

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/17/2011  at  02:49 PM
After Addendum, This of course, Wasn't My Headline

However, it certainly didn’t trouble me when an Islamofascist murdered one of the ISM supporters of his own kind…

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Posted by theother
10/17/2011  at  03:44 PM
No Last Names... because

We have too many threats against us, those that support Palestinian rights. For example, Dan Spitzer is on record as celebrating the kidnapping of Vittorio Arrigoni. We are not safe here, because there are those that post are very violent individuals.

We remember what happened to Alex Odeh. His murderers are living comfortably in illegal settlements in Occupied Palestine, sheltered by the Apartheid regime. You *can* get away with murder in the USA.

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Posted by Janice
10/17/2011  at  06:38 PM
Dan is not from embarrasment

The reason that many of us do not post our names is not for reasons of embarrassment. I am not the least embarrassed by anything I post here or elsewhere. In fact if I kept silent I would really feel embarrassed and ashamed of myself.

Dan, I just don’t want to feel threatened for expressing my opinions which, most fortunately,  run counter to yours.

I do not know “the other” but I must agree with him/her especially when one of the posters last week said he would welcome my being run over by a Catepillar bulldozer while you welcome the death of Vittorio Arrigoni. It is safer and more prudent just to remain Janice.

BTW, what difference would it make to you if I gave you my last name?  It is a Jewish last name if that is what you were wondering.

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Posted by Michael Harris
10/17/2011  at  08:13 PM
More untruths from JVP

1. JVP’s loyalty oath is right on their donation website

” Check the box to agree to carry out your JVP work in agreement with our mission and guidelines.”

Really?  How dare they insist that people conform to their leadership’s guidelines if they want to be part of JVP!

Just below that it says “Peace will only be possible when Israel acknowledges the Palestinian refugees’ right of return”.  Now I would welcome any JVP official stating that they mean this only to apply to actual refugees themselves—but we all know that the Palestinian leadership, and all the organizations that serve the Palestinian cause, insist that this right supposedly can be passed on to descendants of refugees forever. 

There is no basis whatsoever in treaties or “international law” for such a formulation. Try to find it in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.  It’s even questionable as to whether it applies to Palestinian refugees—many who left prior to May 1948 (when there was no country of Israel), while those who left later were the victims of military aggression launched by the surrounding Arab countries. But at most, it applies to a few hundred thousand surviving refugees from 1948, not their millions of descendants.

Given that there is no precedent for this in history or international law, there can be only one reason for this exceptional treatment: the attempt to misuse “international law” to justify demographically eliminating Jewish statehood.

If JVP is truly not taking a position on the existence of a Jewish state, can anyone please let me know the last time JVP presented a speaker who supported the Jewish state of Israel? They are certainly presenting plenty who oppose it. And all of the arguments posted here are against the very existence of a Jewish state within any borders.

By the way, I would also note that I have not accused JVP of anti-Semitism, nor used any type of name calling.  There is more than enough opportunity to challenge the lies and the hypocrisy that their supporters post without resorting to that.

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Posted by Janice
10/17/2011  at  08:35 PM

First of all I wonder if you have read either of the books by Benny Morris and Ilan Pappe that deal with the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians.  Both books were written by these two Israeli historians after the archives of 1948 were released by the Israeli government in 1980. Prior to reading the work of these two men I had not realized the extent of the ethnic cleansing even though I knew that my American born relative had participated in driving the Palestinians at gunpoint from their homes in northern Israel into Lebanon. When I asked him why his reaposne was “we wanted their land and we didn’t want them on it.”

Several months ago Ha’aretz reported that more of the 1948 archives were due for release this year but Netanyahu sealed them One wonders what damaging evidence might have been contained in these archives. Certainly if they had been sympathetic to Israel’s position they would likely have been released.

Now here are some questions. Do you sincerely believe that there could have been a Jewish state if a large percentage of the population had been Palestinians?  Do you agree with Benny Morris who now says that he wishes that Israel had driven all the Palestinians out?

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Posted by Shalom Grunberg
10/17/2011  at  09:20 PM

Here’s the language of JVP. Reactions? I myself wonder why they don’t include a denunciation of any discrimination against Jews. I understand the challenges in specifying a solution, but it would seem that articulating a clear vision would help its members - and critics - understand.
I would also point out that one can have these dialogues without threatening with tear gas canisters, bulldozers, using the German tongue to imply identification wtih brown shirts, or even raising our voices in print.

Solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict:
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict must be resolved through a negotiated peace agreement to both sides and grounded in international law and principles of equity and justice. Whether that agreement embodies a one-state or two-state solution, JVP’s position is that any solution must be consonant with peace, social justice, equality and human rights, democracy, and respect for international law. The terms, “Zionism” and “Jewish state,” are emotionally loaded and defined differently by different people. We do not articulate our positions in these terms, but instead in terms that affirm the values we endorse: equality, human rights, democracy, and respect for international law. From this, it follows that we oppose discrimination against non-Jews in Israel, and we reject arguments for either a one-state or a two-state solution that are based in ensuring dominance of one group over another.

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/17/2011  at  10:13 PM
Shalom Grunberg May Have Been Born in a Revival Meeting, But at Least He Uses His Name

People in the Civil Rights Movement, in the anti-Vietnam War Movement, in the anti-Iraq War Movement, etc. used their own names. But not janice/gittlesura, theother, ucstudent, or other JVP’ers so lacking in integrity that they won’t embarrass themselves by using their own name.

And if I were a woman, any woman other than a masochist, I would cringe at the hypocrisy of tendering any support to an Arab society such as the Palestinians in which the worst sort of misogyny is the norm.

Furthermore, those who support civil rights would NEVER find the Palestinians worthy of championing given their treatment of homosexuals and non-Muslims, to say nothing of their indoctrination of grade school children to grow up to be martyr murders of Jews.

In sum, now that we know that Shalom is a JVP’er, we understand his call for “civility” from those who are critical of JVP and why he ignores any of the above abominations committed by the Palestinian society he so loves. Nope, nary a criticism from him or any of the other JVP’ers toward this sort of barbarism.

Given this, I’m certain others on this site will join me and say, “Shalom” to Shalom. And by that, I mean “Goodbye,” and don’t let the tent flap hit you in the posterior on your way out…

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Posted by gitelsura
10/17/2011  at  10:52 PM
JVP's Opposition to Bigotry

Shalom, you express concern that JVP “doesn’t include a denunciation of any discrimination against Jews.”  They do.  Their opening mission statement emphasizes that it is Jewish tradition that inspires them, and they oppose all forms of bigotry, including anti-Jewish bigotry.  Here’s the first 2 paragraphs of the Mission statement: 

“Jewish Voice for Peace members are inspired by Jewish tradition to work together for peace, social justice, equality, human rights, respect for international law, and a U.S. foreign policy based on these ideals.

JVP opposes anti-Jewish, anti-Muslim, and anti-Arab bigotry and oppression.  JVP seeks an end to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem; security and self-determination for Israelis and Palestinians; a just solution for Palestinian refugees based on principles established in international law; an end to violence against civilians; and peace and justice for all peoples of the Middle East.”

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/17/2011  at  11:46 PM
gitelsura and Fellow JVP'ers, Why Do You Post on This Site?

Are you really so deluded that you believe you will transform anyone who reads J who did not previously support your “I Loathe Israel” perspective?

Really now, please tell us why you waste time posting here. Again, do you think you are really reaching anyone but yourselves?

And gitelsura, stop complaining. If you and your JVP pals continue to post such utter nonsense about Israel, do you think you will be responded to with a smile?  You clearly and richly earn the criticisms expressed here and if you can’t take the heat, do please get out of the kitchen.

Finally, don’t any of you JVP’ers find any fault whatsoever with the barbaric Palestinian misogyny, homophobia, or suppression of dissent? Do please respond.

See how kindly I ask? We are waiting. Inquiring minds want to know…

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Posted by rfaelmoshe
10/18/2011  at  10:53 AM
It appears more "psychology" than "politics"

It appears more “psychology” than “politics.”  In my experiience, people that have “issues” with their parents that are never resolved, go on to symbolically reject their parents’ values in later life. So, the businessman’s child becomes a a Marxist, and the Jewish child becomes “anti-Zionist.” In that inverted world, the “Palestinians” substitute for the Jews, the classically fascist, atavistic and theocratic “Palestinian cause” becomes “a Leftist cause”,  self-defense by Israel becomes “aggression” and real history is replaced with that collection of politically motivated tall tales, “the Palestinian narrative.”

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Posted by Janice
10/18/2011  at  12:20 PM
Dan and his obession wiht last names

Dan, I will reveal my last name when rfaelmoshe and candance do the same. I notice that you have not made the same request of them. Why not?

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/18/2011  at  12:25 PM
janice, what do you think of Palestinian treatment of women, gays & dissenters?

You still have not answered.

On the other hand, as I’ve noted, the vast majority of posters on this site use their given names. But not the JVP’ers, who clearly would be ashamed if word got out about their posts which reflect JVP’s Ministry of Hate.

On the other hand, I will give the JVP poster whose screen name is aunti-semistism his/her due. This moniker is right on target when it comes to aptly representing JVP’s perspectives…

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Posted by Theresa
10/18/2011  at  03:05 PM
Unconditional love?

Rafaelmoshe may very well be correct.  As a recovering JVP’er,  I have come to realize that much of the anti-Israel activism by Jews I’ve seen (at least locally) is instigated by individuals with a distorted self image.  Take one young woman- we’ll call her Rae- her anti-Israel activism stems from her feelings of abandonment by her Jewish Israeli father.  Take another young anti-Israel activist- lets call him Mathew.  His anti- Israel activism stems from his anger at his parents who circumsized him against his will as an infant.
What do we do with such troubled young people?  Unconditional love may prove to be the answer.

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Posted by Janice
10/18/2011  at  07:02 PM
Theresa and Rfaelmoshe Is this the therapy website?

Come on rfaelmoshe and theresa.  Give it up. This is not the therapy or analysis site and for either of you to presume to diagnose people who are not in love with Israel is the height of chutzpah.

One might ask what made you exhalt Israel above all others as you seem to do? Problems with your parents?????

BTW, Dan Spitzer is ancious for me to reveal my last name. How about the two of you doing the same? I have known several woman named Theresa and none of them were remotely Jewish. In fact all of them were Catholic. Does that pertain to you and, if so,  were you really a member of JVP?

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Posted by Janice
10/18/2011  at  08:01 PM
Dan I asked you first and you never answered

I’ll answer your questions about the Palestinians when you answer my questions about Israelis who feel as I do. I have asked you about this on several occasions and you refuse to answer.

Why is this Dan?

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Posted by rfaelmoshe
10/18/2011  at  09:47 PM
Answers about "Palestinians"

The real answers about “Palestinians” are in the history of the region, unknown to JVP.  If one were to read Tristam’s work on his travels in 1865, one would understand a region that had been rendered a back water.  The corrupt, feudal,mis-administration , Tanzimat land reforms, poor agricultural practices, over grazing, Bedouin depredation, plague, famine, earthquakes etc had left the region sparcely (like Ramla had 600 people, Ramalah wasn’t even founded before 1600!)populated, by quite ethnically diverse colonies of Muslims (and various types of Christians, Armenian, Russian, Greek, Ethiopian,)from all over the Ottoman Empire. I.E. Cesarea, from Bosnia etc. the 1911 Encylclopedia Britannica cites 51 languages spoken in Jerusalem. It wasn’t until the economoc, agricultural boom sparked by incoming Jews, together with the 1919 Syrian famine that the ancestors of todays self-identied “Palestinians” migrated to the cites, tenancies and labor in pre-state Israel. This silent Arab migration is both well documented i.e. Ziff’s 1938, “Rape of Palestine”  and is tacitly acknowledged by the unique UNRWA 2 year, 1946-48 residency requirement to be a “Palestinian refugee”, as most Arabs were recent migrants themselves.  Although many fought, and there are acknowledged, albeit few, Israeli location of Arab communities during war fare, the vast majority of Arabs that left Israel left without ever having seen an Israeli soldier, particularly young Arab men of fighting age “escorting their families to safety.”  “Palestinian”, as an Arab political stance (defined primarily only by it’s opposition to the Jewish State of Israel), dates to 1964 Arab League meeting and General Nasser, rather than a tribe, ethnicity etc. and obviously not the original people of the area. That’s the answers about “Palestinians”.

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/18/2011  at  10:44 PM
Janice, You Would NEVER Answer My Questions Because...

you would never admit the truth. That those lovely Palestinian people you and your JVP pals champion treat women like excrement, are homophobic to the core and brutalize gays, teach children from grade school on to grow up to be martyr murders of Jews and suppress any measure of dissent. And finally, the political organization duly elected by those fine Palestinian people advocates Jewish genocide.

Anyone with any neurons functioning knows all the above to be true. But clearly this reality is simply too embarrassing for any JVP’er to acknowledge.

No wonder you JVPers won’t give your name. To support a people who act so barbarically is reason for genuine embarrassment…

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Posted by Theresa
10/18/2011  at  11:33 PM
Such initimate questions

1.I believe it has already been established that you needn’t be Jewish to be in “Jewish” Voice for “Peace”.
2.  However there is a category of Jews often called “Jews by Choice”.  In my synagogue, “Jews by Choice” are called “Jews”.
3.  I was introduced to “Jewish” voice for Peace by a well meaning friend.
4.  I found it strange and cult-like, and very not Jewish.
5.  Another well meaning friend introduced me to Hadassah.
6.  It was a much better fit
7. Why is there is more written about “Jewish” Voice for “Peace” than Hadassah in this newspaper?

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Posted by Janice
10/19/2011  at  09:34 AM
Dan you tar the Palestinians with a broad brush

You remind me of those who tarred the Jews with a broad brush. I will not go into all the terrible things that have been said about Jews throughout the years.

What you need to know is that before the ZIonists made explicit their intent to take over Palestine for themselves the Arabs of Palestine were the most secular in the Arab world. Many of the Arabs of Palestine were Christian and they suffered at the hands of the Jews as much as did the Muslims.

When people are traumatixed and occupied they tend to become more extreme. Though they are not occupied just take a look at some of the relgious in Israel who do not want to ride in the same bus with women, who attack women who are not “modestly” dressed, who hate homosexuals etc. Not much different than the extreme Palestinians I would say.

BTW, I just read the Hamas charter and while it calls for Islam in Palestine it does not call for wiping out the Jews.Please cite the section where it calls for killing all the Jews. I couldn’t find it.

I do not agree with the Hamas charter but you also have to understand that had there been no occupation there would be no Hamas. Hamas only came about after 20 years of Israeli brutality and occupation. The Israeli government even supported Hamas in the beginning seeing it as a counterweirhgt to the secular PLO.

You. Dan SPitzer, are a hater of Palestinians and an extremist. Your views are not consistent with the views of friends of mine, many of the women,  who have spent months living with Palestinians. Some of those friends are Jewish and they would say that you , Dan Spitzr, are full of it.

Now, will you answer my questions regarding Israelis who feel as I do? No, I suspect that you won’t since all you know ho to do is to throw out lies and insults.

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Posted by Cadance M
10/19/2011  at  11:40 AM
From the Hamas charter

To Janice:

“Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah’s promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:

“The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree,  would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews.”

To me, this is a call for the genocide of the Jewish people.

To Dan Spitzer:
Refusing to answer their accusers is a consistent part of the anti-Israel lobby’s startegy


“But there is one element of the BDS mindset, indeed the anti-Israel mindset generally, that provides its practitioners a significant amount of rhetorical power in any argument, protest or debate: their ability to ignore every inconvenient fact that gets in the way of their own narrative.

How many times at a rally or debate have we seen these “Friends of Palestine” confronted with questions about rocket and bombing attacks on Israeli civilians, about the killing of Palestinians by each other or by Arab leaders (like Assad of Syria), or about the abuse of women, gays and minorities in Muslim lands, only to watch them deal with such criticism by:

1. Ignoring it completely

2. When that fails, rolling their eyes and issuing a scoffing laugh while spinning on their heels and walking away

3. And when that fails, pretending to agree “yes, the killing of Israeli civilians is completely unacceptable…” followed by the usual “big but” (as in “…BUT those missiles, kidnappings and bombings would never have occurred if not for the Occupation™).

Unlike the small child who simply blots out that which they don’t agree with or understand, the effort to ignore so much history, so many facts, so much bloodshed performed by their allies actually takes a great deal of creative effort on the part of the BDS brigade.

For example, take a look at the elaborate constructs surrounding the need to ignore peace deals offered to the Palestinians over the last ten years, nearly all of which would give them 99-100% of the land they claim to have craved since time immemorial. Now one could make the case that those peace deals did not include things the Palestinians hold more dearly than land (such as the so-called “Right of Return”). Or you could highlight the obvious political division within the Palestinian camp to point out the difficulty of cutting any deal. Both would expose the Palestinian position as not ready for reasonable negotiations towards peace, but at least they reflect something approaching reality.

But rather than go down this route, the boycotters instead create an elaborate fantasy world in which peace deals everyone knows about down to the last detail were never actually made. And their constructs include maps, essays, articles, speeches, curricula and all kinds of other materials that require a huge amount of effort to prove that white is black (similar to the fantasy literature around faux “massacres” such as Jenin).”

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Posted by Janice
10/19/2011  at  11:49 AM
An article for all of you

Please read this article about a Palestinian village under assault from the Israeli government. Read about the kindergarden that is being taught by a young American woman who is not wearing a headscarf. See the poster advocating peace that hangs on a wall in this village.

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Posted by Janice
10/19/2011  at  11:58 AM
To Cadance M

Once again may I remind you and others of your mindset that were there no occupation there would be no Hamas just as had there been no occupation of Lebanon there would be no Hexbollah.

I blame Israel for the rise of both of these groups.

Tell me, had the Germans not murdered millions of Jews but instead kept them in captivity for years taking their property and treating them badly do you not think that Jewish resistance groups would have been forrmed targeting not only German military but German civilians and calling for the death of Germans? I think so.

You can’t treat people badly and not expect them to hate you for it. I remember hating the Germans and wishing them dead for what they were doing to Jews. I know that I was not alone in that feeling and I suspect that not a few of you on this comment section would have felt the same had you been around at the time when the Germans were murderering our people.

I am not saying that the mentality of the Israelis is the same as the Germans but only that when one group of people treats another group badly you can’t expect the badly treated group to love you.

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Posted by Cadance M
10/19/2011  at  12:23 PM
what occupation?

In 1967, Israel was forced into a war and as a result found itself in control of the Sinai penninsula, the Gaza Strip and the area today called the West Bank, but known historicaly as Judea and Shomron, until it was ethnically cleansed of its Jewish population under Jordanian control.
This is what you call “occupation”.  Why has it gone on as long as it has?  The answer is Arab intransigence.

After the war, the leaders of 13 Arab states gathered at in Khartoum, Sudan. There they pledged to continue their struggle against Israel.  Their conditions were quite specific: “no peace with Israel, no negotiations with Israel, no recognition of Israel”

When the Palestinians and the Arab nations recognize the right of the Jewish people to self determination, then there will be peace.  If the primary question in this conflict is “Where are the eventual borders of a Jewish State and a Palestinian state going to be located”?, then there will be peace. Someday.  But that is not the main issue. To me,  the primary issue in this conflict is the refusal of the Palestinian people to recognize the right of the Jewish people to self determination.  Until the Palestinians and their “Jew-washing” allies at JVP recognize that the Jews are human and as such are entitled to human rights, peace seems unobtainable.

This does not stop me from hoping for peace, and working towards peace, however.

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/19/2011  at  02:41 PM
Janice, I'm Certain You Will Find a Way to Justify This:

Freed Palestinian tells schoolkids: Follow my path to martyrdom

(JTA)—A failed Palestinian suicide bomber freed in the swap for Gilad Shalit told Gaza schoolchildren that she hoped they would follow in her footsteps.

Yes, you will fid no fault with this nor with anything else your Palestinian barbarians do or say.

Again, it’s difficult to understand why anyone would consider further dialogue with someone who rationalizes such sickness.

And once again, please do tell us why you post on this site? What do you think you are accomplishing? Do you think your propaganda is getting through to change the mind of anyone who reads J?

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Posted by rfaelmoshe
10/19/2011  at  03:08 PM
Hamas is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood

Hamas is the Gaza branch of the Muslim Brotherhood founded in Egypt in 1928, two decades before Israel’s independence.  As is the usual pattern, they masqueraded as an “Islamic charitable organization” for some years, as a means of gaining political support by providing social services when the “Palestinian Authority” was not. Hamas came to the attention of the media,after they had gained enough “Palestinian” support to throw off the mask of being a charitable organization and openly assume their stance as militant Islamacists. 

Although there were and are Christians (often of Greek Orthodox background,although perhaps Arabic speakers)in Israel and the surrounding areas, they have been subjected to Muslim depredations for centuries and were driven to emigrate decades before Zionism began in modern times. The “Palestinian” Muslims in that area have forced out all but the remaining 2% of “Palestinian” Christians in the areas under the “Palestinian Authority.”  Prior to modern Zionism, the area that became the British Mandate of Palestine was de-populated, and the scattered few villages were ethnically diverse, although mostly Muslim, although Bedouin, Druse, Christian,Samaritan, etc as well. However, these ethnically diverse Ottoman citizens and colonists were not “Palestinians.”  That is a mid-20th century invention.

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Posted by Janice
10/19/2011  at  03:50 PM
To Cadance M

The only country in the world that considers the occupation to be legal is Israel. The rest of the world community does not.

Have you forgotten that Arafat recognized Israel two decades ago and got nothing for the recognition but continued occupation and settlements.

Meanwhile what do you expect the Palestinians to do when Israel does not recognize their right to self determination?

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Posted by Janice
10/19/2011  at  03:54 PM
Dan once again you are dead wrong

I do not justify this. I do not justify any suicide bombing just as I do not justify a missile going into an apartment house killing many people.

Killing is wrong no matter who commit the terrible deed.

I post on this site because, like you, I have a right to post and because, like you, I am Jewish but Jewish with a different point of view.

BTW, why do you bother posting. In most instances you are only preaching to the choir.
I have noticed that hardly a week goes by when you do not post a comment. How do you find time to write that article on Cuba?

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Posted by UC Berkeley student
10/19/2011  at  03:57 PM
to Michael Harris

I can actually think of at leasr one historical precedent for people who claim to have lived in a place for centuries and therefore get the right to return there, even if they themselves weren’t born there. Check out Zionism.

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Posted by Janice
10/19/2011  at  04:03 PM
Please Dan, answer my question

What is your opinion of Israelis who feel as I do?

What do you think of the reservists who refuse to serve beyond the Green Line because, as they state on their web site, they do not want to oppress, starve, humiliate or expel an entire people?

What do you think of the young Israelis who go to prison rather than serve as oppressors in the IDF?

What do you think of the people of B’Tselem who document both Israeli and Palestinian violations of human rights?

What is your opinion of the Women in Black who stand silently every week protesting the occupation braving the spittle and jeers of right wing Jews?

What do you think of the Israelis who protest the demolition of Palestinian homes and who help to rebuild them?

What is your opinion of the women of Machsom Watch who monitor the checkpoints and report the numerous acts of violence and humiliation by the IDF against Palestinians civilians?

To me all of these people are true Jewish heroes who embody the best of Judaism.

Dan, have you the courage to answer me. I am waiting but I will probably wait in vain.

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Posted by Janice
10/19/2011  at  04:20 PM
Finally to rfaelmoshe

I will not argue with you about the origins of Hamas but you need to understand that without the occupation Hamas would be nothing. It was the occupation that brought Hamas to power when the PLO proved to be ineffective at ending the occupation and IDF brutality .

As for the Christians of Palestine, they were among the most wealthy and they had the means to flee when the Zionists took over. There are still Christians in Jerusalem and they are staying put in spite of the depredations put on them by Israel.

One of my good friends is a Palestinian Christian who was born in 1947 in Jerusalem. Her family was among the founders of Ramallah in the 1500s. Her family left Palestine not because of Muslims but because of the war. Today she speaks for peace between Jews, Christians and Muslims. She has no hate in her heart and yet she cannot return to the land of her birth wheras I can “return” at any time. I find that terribly wrong.

You are also wrong about the Christians fleeing Palestine long before the arrival of the ZIonists. There is plenty of evidence that there was a significant population of Christians in Palestine.

Here is the 1922 census of Palestine showing a large majortiy of Muslim and a much smaller number of Jews and Christians. If the Muslims were driving out the Christians they weren’t very successful at it.

The 1922 census of Palestine was the first census carried out by the authorities of the British Mandate of Palestine, on 23 October 1922.

The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 1,454 Hindus, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.

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Posted by rfaelmoshe
10/19/2011  at  04:52 PM
Good start!

That’s a very good start to understanding the actual origins of today’s self-identified “Palestinians.” Ramallah was just city founded by colonists fr om elsewhere in the Ottoman Empire,as was Um Al-Fahm (“mother of charcoal”)etc in stark contrast to the canard that “Palestinians are the Indigenous people of Israel”.  Of the Muslims of course,some were Sunnni and some were Shia, quite distinct and not friendly with each other. However, Jerusalem had been minority Jewish for over the past 150 years despite everything.  And, yes,although Christians remain, they have been emigrating for years, often called “Lebanese” or “Syrian”  Christians in the 1800s as the phrase “Palestinians” hadn’t been used yet.  The wealthier Arab, both Muslim and Christian, left in the 1930’s in response to the Grand Mufti’s campaign of assassination of rivals, leaving the illiterate migrant labor classes, leaderless.

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/19/2011  at  05:11 PM
Janice, Every Free Society Has Its Dissidents

And Israel is one of the freest societies on the planet.

There are precise few Israelis who loath Israel as much as you do. But as in the US, there are some fools who support the very tyranny which would destroy them. Yes, I’m referring to the Israelis who echo the nonsense you post here. In point of fact, that’s what JVP so often parrots. This is to say, support for those who advocate Jewish genocide and the liquidation of the Jewish state.

As for Palestinians dissidents, well now that would be as much an oxymoron as the notion of Palestinian feminists. Both of these genres would be killed just as soon as they opened their mouth in public.

Why do I post? Because I know that no matter how nonsensical the propaganda may be emanating from the likes of you and your JVP pals, the old Goebbels’ maxim of “if you repeat a lie enough, it becomes the gospel” is reason enough for me to cut through such falsehoods with the truth. And as a largely retired writer, I have the time to do so, thus making a minor contribution to a country and people I love, Israel.

And Janice, again, you must know that no one reading your rubbish finds any merit in it. Don’t you have anything better to do? Or do you simply LIVE TO HATE like most of your JVP pals along with the ilk of Michel Lerner, Barbara Lubin, and Norman Finklestein?

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Posted by Janice
10/19/2011  at  11:49 PM
Don't be so sure of yourself Dan

There have been other posters who do find merit in what I have written.

And now I will say adios to you.

We will never agree and you are showing that what you are looking forward to is true apartheid in the West Bank as israel closes in on the Palestinians. You also must understand that without a genuine, viable and contiguous Palestinian state there will be no peace for either Israelis or Palestinians. Or maybe you only want peace for Israel and believe that the Palestinians should be ethnically cleansed.

BTW I do not loathe Israel at all. That is only in your mind. I do abhor some of their policies as do patriotic Israelis. I do not loathe Israel any more than do the good Israelis who love their country and want it to be better with peace and justice for both Israelis and Palestinians. I know you only want justice for israel and that is where you and I part company.

This is a waste of my time to argue with you and some of the others. But that does not mean that I will give up my right to express my opinions and I am pleased that J Weekly does not censor those who do not walk in lockstep with the Zionist community in the Bay Area.

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/19/2011  at  11:52 PM
Janice, You Say "Adios"--And I Say...

Good Riddance. Interaction with those who champion a people pledged to Jewish genocide is not a pleasant experience…

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Posted by Janice
10/20/2011  at  01:15 AM
Dan it is adios to you but not to J Weekly

Whether or not you like it I will continue to post on J Weekly. It is just too bad if you don’t like it.

But keep reading. You might learn somethng.

BTW, where and when is your Cuba article going to be published? If at all.

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Posted by Dan Spitzer
10/20/2011  at  07:19 AM
Janice, How Can I Say...

“Good Riddance” if you simply won’t go away?

While my profession shouldn’t be any of your business, I told you what to Google and to your chagrin, you found the books authored by me which, when asked by you, I noted I had written.

But I’m proud of my books and pieces so I will simply and happily say that you will be able to read my quite critical commentary on the Castro Bros. regime in a book to be published in early 2013. If you buy it, I will happily autograph it for you.

Of course you and your JVP pals won’t like what I have to say about the Cuban regime, as you like authoritarian thugocracies such as the Palestinians you so uncritically champion.

BTW, since you’ve pried into my professional work and I’ve answered your questions on such-I mean hell, you won’t even show the integrity to let us know your name because you are ashamed-please tell me: are you one of the 2% of photographers who actually earn a living from their work? Almost none who photograph weddings as you say you do earn enough to survive.

Thus it is reasonable to conclude that you live off your husband’s income thereby giving time to spread your swill on J about your poor, poor barbaric Islamofascist Palestinians…

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Posted by Janice
10/20/2011  at  10:12 AM
While it is really none of your business Dan

Both my husband and I are comfortably retired.

Dan I am not a hater like you. I know Palestinians and I know people who have spent a lot of time with Palestnians. What these Palestinians want is freedom from Israeli oppression and I cannot blame them although I would not be surprised if you don’t think that they all should leave their homes and lands and let Israel take over everything.

For an opinion of Palestinians that differs from yous I would suggest that you read Witness in Palestine written by Anna Baltzer a Jewish American woman who spent months in the West Bank living with Palestinian families. I think she has far more experience with Palestinians than you do.

If you respond and there is no need to do so,  please spare me your tiresome slogans that show your hatred of Palestinians, most of whom are no different than anyone else you would meet here or anywhere.  There are the good and bad among them just as there are the good and bad in every people, including our own Jewish people.

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Posted by Cadance M
10/20/2011  at  11:05 PM
JVP fights back

JVP has created an automatic letter generator than sends 20 emails at a time.  They hope to enundate the Federation with emails in protest.  Its a combination of denial of service attack/ spamming and sour grapes.  Who are these people and why do they feel so entitled?

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