Lerner blames right-wingers for attack on Berkeley home

Maybe those were peace loving muslims who just can’t make a disinction between Lerner & Goldtone and the right wingers?

Why is Rabbi Lerner blaming “right-wingers”? Does he have proof. Looks like he is getting plenty of self-generated publicity from this. Makes me wonder—in the past he admitted writing letters to Tikkun under different names, praising the magazine. I wonder now if he did not paste those flyers to his own home so that he could claim that he was a victim of “right-wingers”.

A few posters were pasted on Lerner’s home. He reports to the police that his house was attacked by right wingers. Yeh. How much damage done by small posters on his fence. None. How much publicity the guy got? Lots. He is known for doing manipulation like this before. The guy is an attention seeker. His support for the despicable goldstone tells a lot about Lerners morals and viewpoints.

Also note that the photo that goes with the story was provided to J by Rabbi Lerner himself. Looks like somebody was out for publicity. The police need to look into this matter—could be a repeat of Lerner’s letter writing scandal, this time with posters on his house

Have any of you taken a good look at the “nasty” posters that “defaced” “rabbi” Lerner’s fence? If you had you would have seen the real nastiness of people holding posters stating “Exterminate those who slander Islam” or “Massacre those who insult Islam” & “Imperialist America is humanity’s number one enemy”. Where is the outrage over that? Why are you evading THAT truth? Lerner’s fence is not worth all this attention. Just think of all the harm & violence HE has caused against his fellow Jews. After all, his pals at ANSWER & ISM hold signs that say “Death to the JEWS” and “Hitler didn’t finish the job”.Wake up people…we are not in the shtetl anymore!It’s happening in our own backyard. DO SOMETHING instead of tut-tutting about poor Lerner’s fence.

Groups such as Code pink began the tactic of stalking people at their homes.  At first it was limited to public figures and elected representatives, but the current object of their ire is John Yoo, a Cal professor who like Lerner lives in the Berkeley hills and has been subject to continued harrassemnt at his home in the name of “justice”.  So, Michael Lerner, this lack of civility is not limited to the “right”- in extends into your camp as well.

To lump Judge Goldstone and Rabbi Lerner in with the criminal goniff Bernie Madoff is incredibly stupid,

What you don’t like is that the judge exposed exactly what Israel did in Gaza, just as he previously exposed the crimes in Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia. Not only did Goldstone expose Israeli war crimes in Gaza but so did several Israeli soldiers who took part in Operation Cast Lead. You also seem to forget that Goldstone also accused Hamas of war crimes. He would have directly investigated the scene in Sderot but Israel would not let him in the country, undoubtedly fearful of the truths about Israel’s attack that the judge would reveal.

Rabbi Lerner has long supported Israel but not Israel’s occupation and theft of Palestinian lands. He joins many Israelis and diaspora Jews who feel exactly the same way.

Rabbi Lerner knows, as the world knows,  that ALL the Israeli settlements, including those now being built in East Jerusalem,  are illegal and against international law.

But I guess in your mind, international law does not apply to Israel and that any Jew who believes that it should is despicable.

I can tell by your comments that you’ve got that leftist silly putty kind of brain that so-called intellectuals like norman finklestien and lerner can mold into a brand new unthinking follower. You have so bought into that terror apologist mentality while playing up any imperfection in Israeli policy and actions. did you ever ask yourself what accounted for anti-Semetism befoer the occupation? before the modern state of Israel? or before the Zionist movement even? Jews like you and lerner will lead our people straight into another Holocaust at this rate. The fact that so far you are the only goldstone report supporting anti-Zionist Jew posting on this story so far gives me some hope at least. Most everybody else posting so far pretty much has it right. Also, get your facts straight. Dershowitz calls for a two state solution.

Sol, for your edification I did not need a Rabbi Lerner or a Norman Finkelstein to shape my opinions. They were shaped many years ago when my relative by marriage told me of the role he played in 1948 as a member of the Palmach in the ethnic cleansing of the Palestine Arabs. He recounted with pride how the Palmach forced the villagers at gunpoint to flee in terror from their homes in northern Palestineinto Lebanon. I didn’t ask my relative if he killed anyone. I guess that I just didn’t want to know.

I did ask him why they expelled the Arabs. His answer was “we wanted their land.” In later years the new Israeli historians revealed in depth the ethnic cleansing that took place.

I have always thought that something was wrong when I, as a Jew, can “return” to a land where to my knowledge none of my ancestors ever set foot while those who were ethnically cleansed could not return to their lands and homes.

Sol, my grandfather came to the U.S. because of the pogroms in czarist Russia. No Palestinians were attacking him or any other Jews in Europe. It was European anti-Semitism that lead a small group of European Jews to decide that the Jews needed a homeland. They settled on Palestine with the full knowledge that the land was already inhabited by another people who might not look kindly on being ousted from their homeland.

There is plenty of evidence to show that the Zionists knew that they could not have a Jewish state unless the Jews were a significant majority and so plans were made to oust the Arabs, both Muslim and Christian. The history is there if you have the courage to find it. This history includes many acts of terrorism by Jewish terror groups against Arabs.

Remember Sol, that the Palestinians were not responsible for anti=Semitism in Europe and yet they also paid a very high price in the loss of their lives, homes and lands.

Had it not been for the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians, the Jews of Arab countries would likely still be living and thriving in their home countries. Just remember that the Palestinians were the first to be expelled.

You write of anti-Semitism which has, unfortunately, been a fact of life for centuries. In many quarters of the world, following the Holocaust, Jews reaped the good wishes of much of the world.  Now I see anti-Semitism growing as a result of Israel’s actions. Israel calls itself the state of all the world’s Jews so we Jews are held responsible for what Israel does. As for me, America is my homeland and it is to America and no other country that I pledge my allegiance.

As for Dershowitz and a two-state solution, the man is completely disingenuous . He cannot be unaware of the fact that Israel has stolen so much of Palestinian lands and water resources that the West Bank looks like a piece of Swiss cheese. All that would be left for a Palestinian “state” would be a series of walled-in bantustans surrounded by and dominated by Israel. This is the so-called “generous offer” made to the Palestinians during the Oslo years. I have yet to hear Dershowitz calling on Israel to stop building the settlements, all of which he must know as a law professor, are illegal under international law.

Finally, don’t get too excited about my being the only Jew supporting Goldstone on this forum. There are a lot more of us out there than you would like to know.  They just don’t read J.

I don’t suppose you care to comment on the dirty laundry of your beloved Judge Goldstone that just got aired. How he had 28 S.African blacks “executed” under the apartheid system, as in actual apartheid. but hey no big deal, after all it’s not like we’re talking war crimes here right?

Whether or not you like it the Arabs who lived for many generations in the land called Palestine are Palestinians. They have as much right to call themselves Palestinians as Jews who live in Israel have the right to call themselves Israelis.

The Palestinian people developed their own culture through the generations and are entitled to call themselves whatever they want.

Since you seem to be a believer in ethnic cleansing I am wondering whether or not you realize that ethnic cleansing is considered a war crime.

As for Jews owning most of the land in Palestine that just isn’t true. At the time of partition Jews owned about 6% of the land. Doesn’t sound like that is most of the land.

You say that the Arabs of Palestine started the war in 1948. What do you think would have happened had the shoe been on the other foot and the Jews were the majority population. Would they have willingly given up more than 55% of their land to the Palestinian Arabs without engaging in a fight? I don’t think so.

Meanwhile for your edification I suggest that you take this quiz about Israel/Palestine that was written by a member of an Israeli peace group. Of course, I suspect that since he is part of an Israeli peace group likely discredits him in your mind. But take the quiz. It might open your mind.
http://www.countercurrents.org/rudolph180608.htm

My friend was recently in Jerusalem visiting his Israeli family. One day he took his 7 year old grandson for a walk and when they passed by an elderly Palestinian man, the youngster pointed to him and said “Death to the Arabs .” Needless to say my friend was horrified.

Sadly the hatred goes both ways.  The level of hatred and discrimination against Arabs is rampant in Israel while the Arabs hold little affection for those who pushed them off their lands and now oppress them in the Occupied Territories.

I do not support terrorism no matter who does it or whether the terror comes in the form of a suicide belt or a missile from an Apache helicopter or an F16. Suicide bombing is an absolute crime as are targeted assassinations which often kill innocent people. Bulldozing people’s homes because you want the land or bulldozing their olive groves and thus destroying their livelihood is a crime as far as I am concerned.

I know damn well that if we were occupied we would not exactly love our occupiers especially if they were taking our lands and oppressing us.

I can only guess that proudisraeli and friscokind have no problem with the oppression by our people of another people.

As I said in a prior posting to Sol, I stand with the Israelis who oppose the occupation and who refuse to participate in the oppression of the Palestinians.
I guess you boys (I assume you are boys) don’t like these Israelis either.

Too bad because they are the only hope for peace.

Shalom

BTW, can either of you explain to me how there could have been a Jewish state if a goodly percentage of the population was not Jewish? You do know about Plan D don’t you?

Janice continues to demonstrate a lack of knowledge about the mideast.

“while the Arabs hold little affection for those who pushed them off their lands and now oppress them in the Occupied Territories.”
So how do you explain the actions of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq etc vis a vis ISrael.  The arabs hold little affection for the jews because they are jewish. That is why they were driven from their countries and had their possessions confiscated—that is if they were not killed beforehand

“they were taking our lands and oppressing us.”
This is the typical anti_israel rhetoric one always hears. It is all Israel’s fault—the Palestinians are innocent martyrs. Perhaps you should become familiar with how and why Israel acquired the West Bank and Gaza. What the aim of the Arabs was then and what the aim of Hamas and Hezbollah is now.

“I can only guess that proudisraeli and friscokind have no problem with the oppression by our people of another people.”
This is another example from the anti_Israel playbook—claim that we are oppressing people. If the Palestinians would recognize Israel, renounce terrorism and accept Israel’s right to exist, then there would be peace. Look what happened in Gaza—Israel withdrew and left greenhouses for jobs. The greenhouses were destroyed and Israel was subjected to daily rocket attacks by Hamas. I understand that for people like Janice it is easier to scapegoat Israel then to pin any of the blame on their beloved Hamas and Hezbollah.

“I guess you boys (I assume you are boys) don’t like these Israelis either.”
Well,little girl, you assume wrong. I have respect for those Israelis that speak out on what they think is right (you will please note that that kind of freedom is discouraged by the arab nations in the area). They at least live in Israel, have served in the IDF and have defended Israel. You sit in the comfort of your Bay Area home and lecture Israel on what they are doing wrong.

“I do not support terrorism no matter who does it or whether the terror comes in the form of a suicide belt or a missile from an Apache helicopter or an F16.”
It is also unfortunate that you cannot differentiate a terrorist with a suicide bomb from a country that is forced to over and over again defend itself from people who call for their destruction

“I stand with the Israelis who oppose the occupation and who refuse to participate in the oppression of the Palestinians.”
And by your comment i can conclude that you oppose Israelis that disagree with you.

Your one-sided comments continue to show us the kind of Jew you are. I find you to be a sad misguided girl

Your one-sided comments show what kind of a human being you are.

PI, I devoutly wish for peace between Israel and the Palestinians. I wish that Israel had been a bi-national state from the beginning but that did not happen. That being said, if the Palestinians completely gave in, renounced violence and accepted Israel as a Jewish state,  do you believe that Israel would vacate the West Bank? Would they return the stolen water resources and the lands on which settlements, built in contravention of international law,  and highways have been built?
Frankly, I don’t think so and I don’t think from Day One that Israel ever intended to return the lands of the West Bank. Just check out the Allon plan.

As for Hamas and Hezbollah please remember that there was no Hamas until after 20 years of Israeli occupation. In fact when Hamas began, Israel supported the group as a counterweight to the secular and corrupt PLO. Without the occupation there would be no Hamas.

Just as the occupation of the West Bank brought about Hamas so did the brutal occupation of Lebanon bring about the formation of Hezbollah, a group that arose to resist that occupation.

PI, I am not a girl. I was a teenager when the state of Israel was proclaimed and I was thrilled. I don’t think I knew at the time that another people were kicked off their lands so that my people could have a homeland. What have learned over the years, from reading the works of israeli historians and from the words of my Israeli relatives has shown me that the Palestinians have a legitimate gripe.

You said:“Had the Arab nations accepted the 1948 decision, we would not be in this situation now.”

Do you really believe that Israel would have been satisfied with that small piece of land? Do you not know that in the 1930s when another partition was proposed, David Ben-Gurion wrote that he would reluctantly accept partition but when the Jews became strong as the result of becoming a state they would expand to all the area.

I have no doubt that the Palestinians were screwed no matter what they did. They knew from the beginning that the Zionists were planning to displace them and they did, what most people in that situation would do, they resisted. And don’t forget that the Jews of mandate Palestine also used terror tactics against the British occupiers and against the Arabs. Perhaps you don’t know that bomb laden donkeys were taken to Arab markets where they exploded killing shoppers or that two Arab theaters were blown up. And, of course, there was the blowing up the King David Hotel and the assassination of Count Fokle Bernadotte as he sought to bring peace.

Neither people’s hand’s are clean. Both committed acts of terror.

There will never be peace until there is justice and justice means that the Palestinians must have a viable state in the lands occupied by Israel since 1967. I hope for friendship and peace between both peoples but as long as the occupation continues friendship will be impossible. The Palestinians who have as much, if not more, right to the land of the West Bank than we do, are not going to leave on their own even as Israel makes life miserable for them.

I am sorry that you think that to be a “good” Jew one has to support whatever Israel does. You remind me of the right-wing Americans who told those of us who protested the Vietnam War, a senseless war that killed millions, that we were not “good” Americans.

I will end with the words of a good friend of mine, a fairly devout Jew who has spoken out about what he correctly perceives are Israel’s crimes of occupation against the Palestinians. When he is asked why he, as a Jew, criticizes Israel his response is that because he is a Jew it is his duty to speak out.

As a Jew I feel that it is also my duty.

In response to Eli Weisel’s ad in the Washington Post re Jerusalem a group of Israelis wrote an open letter to Weisel. These are the Israelis I support. The letter was printed in the New York Review of Books.

. Among the one hundred signers are Israel Prize Laureates Avishai Margalit and Zeev Sternhell, former Knesset Speaker and Jewish Agency Chairman Avrum Burg, Professors David Shulman and Moshe Halbertal, former Knesset member Zehava Galan, and other Jerusalemites, many of whom are prominent intellectuals and academics.1

“Dear Mr. Wiesel:

We write to you from Jerusalem to convey our frustration, even outrage, at your recently published letter on Jerusalem. We are Jewish Jerusalemites—residents by choice of a battered city, a city used and abused, ransacked time and again first by foreign conquerors and now by its own politicians. We cannot recognize our city in the sentimental abstraction you call by its name.

Our Jerusalem is concrete, its hills covered with limestone houses and pine trees; its streets lined with synagogues, mosques, and churches. Your Jerusalem is an ideal, an object of prayers and a bearer of the collective memory of a people whose members actually bear many individual memories. Our Jerusalem is populated with people, young and old, women and men, who wish their city to be a symbol of dignity—not of hubris, inequality, and discrimination. You speak of the celestial Jerusalem; we live in the earthly one.

For more than a generation now the earthly city we call home has been crumbling under the weight of its own idealization. Your letter troubles us, not simply because it is replete with factual errors and false representations, but because it upholds an attachment to some otherworldly city that purports to supersede the interests of those who live in the this-worldly one. For every Jew, you say, a visit to Jerusalem is a homecoming, yet it is our commitment that makes your homecoming possible. We prefer the hardship of realizing citizenship in this city to the convenience of merely yearning for it.

Indeed, your claim that Jerusalem is above politics is doubly outrageous. First, because contemporary Jerusalem was created by a political decision and politics alone keeps it formally unified. The tortuous municipal boundaries of today’s Jerusalem were drawn by Israeli generals and politicians shortly after the 1967 war. Feigning to unify an ancient city, they created an unwieldy behemoth, encircling dozens of Palestinian villages that were never part of Jerusalem. Stretching from the outskirts of Ramallah in the north to the edge of Bethlehem in the south, the Jerusalem that the Israeli government foolishly concocted is larger than Paris. Its historical core, the nexus of memories and religious significance often called the “Holy Basin,” makes up a mere one percent of its area. Now the government calls this artificial fabrication “Jerusalem” in order to obviate any approaching chance for peace.

Second, your attempt to keep Jerusalem above politics means divesting us of a future. For being above politics is being devoid of the power to shape the reality of one’s life. As true Jerusalemites, we cannot stand by and watch our beloved city, parts of which are utterly neglected, being used as a springboard for crafty politicians and sentimental populists who claim that Jerusalem is above politics and negotiation. All the while, they frantically “Judaize” East Jerusalem in order to transform its geopolitics beyond recognition.

We invite you to our city to view with your own eyes the catastrophic effects of the frenzy of construction. You will witness that, contrary to some media reports, Arabs are not allowed to build their homes anywhere in Jerusalem. You will see the gross inequality in allocation of municipal resources and services between east and west. We will take you to Sheikh Jarrah, where Palestinian families are being evicted from their homes to make room for a new Jewish neighborhood, and to Silwan, where dozens of houses face demolition because of the Jerusalem Municipality’s refusal to issue building permits to Palestinians.

We, who live in Jerusalem, can no longer be sacrificed for the fantasies of those who love our city from afar. The Jerusalem of this world must be shared by the people of the two nations residing in it. Only a shared city will live up to the prophet’s vision: “Zion shall be redeemed with justice.” As we chant weekly in our vigils in Sheikh Jarrah: “Nothing can be holy in an occupied city!”

Ada Bilu; Alon Harel; Amiel Vardi; Amit Lavi; Amit Miller; Amos Goldberg; Ariela Brin; Assaf Sharon; Avichay Sharon; Avishai Margalit; Avital Abudi; Avital Sharon; Avner Inbar; Avrum Burg; Barbara Spectre; Bernard Avishai; Carlo Strenger; Daniella Gordon; Dani Schrire; Daniel Argo; Danny Felsteiner; Daphna Stroumsa; David Grossman; David Shulman; Diana Steigler; Dolev Rahat; Dorit Gat; Dorit Argo; Edna Ulman-Margalit; Eitan Buchvall; Eli Sharon; Freddie Rokem; Galit Hasan-Rokem; Gideon Freudenthal; Gil Gutglick; Guga Kogan; Guy Feldman; Hagit Benbaji; Hagit Keysar; Haya Ofek; Hillel Ben Sasson; Ishay Rosen-Zvi; Itamar Shappira; Jonathan Yaari; Judy Labensohn; Judy Labensohn; Julia Alfandari; Levi Spectre; Liran Razinsky; Maya Wind; Mical Raz; Michael Ritov; Miriam Farhi-Rodrig; Mirit Barashi; Mirit Barashi; Moshe Halbertal; Naama Baumgarten-Sharon; Naama Hochstein; Nadav Sharon; Neria Biala; Nili Sharon; Noa Lamm-Shalem; Oded Erez; Oded Na’aman; Ofer Neiman; Omri Metzer; Paul Mendes-Flohr; Peter Lehahn; Phil Spectre; Ra’anan Alexandrowicz; Ram Rahat; Ray Schrire; Reuven Kaminer; Roee Metzer; Ronen Mandelkern; Roni Hammerman; Sahar Vardi; Sara Benninga; Sharon Casper; Shir Aloni Yaari; Shir Sternberg; Shlomi Segall; Silan Dallal; Silvia Piterman; Tal Shapira; Tamar Lehahn; Tamar Rappaport; Uri Bitan; Yafa Tarlowski; Yaron Gal; Yaron Wolf; Yehuda Agus; Yonatan Haimovich; Yoram Gordon; Yotam Wolfe; Yuval Drier Shilo; Zehava Galon; Zeev Sternhell; Zvi Benninga; Zvi Mazeh; Zvi Schuldiner

I dare you to call these good Israelis shandas but you might.

For someone who claimed to not what wanting to continue this dialogue, you sure wrote plenty!!!

“I dare you to call these good Israelis shandas but you might. “
A number of points regarding your last postings and comments.
First of all, you did not read what I wrote above—that I respect those Israelis that disagree with the government policy, because they are living in Israel and really know what is going on. Unlike some people who chastise Israel from the comfort of their Bay Area homes.
Second, I can infer from your comment that those Israelis that do not agree with the letter are considered by you to be “bad” Israelis.
Third, I am sure we could provide for you letters signed by other Israelis completely disagreeing with the above letter. Everyone has an opinion. You gravitate towards opinions that suit your purposes—therefore you are a great believer in the Palestinian propaganda that is put out on a daily basis.
Finally, you are the only shanda I am aware of in this forum.

A January Newsweek article had this:
“And in fact, more Israelis than ever (including Netanyahu, though with major provisions) now say they’re willing to live alongside an independent Palestinian state.”.
The real problem is the fact that the Palestinians refuse to accept Israel. That is the issue, that is the problem. You refuse to see that because you are too busy working hand in hand with the Palestinian propaganda machine to scapegoat Israel.  Too bad. Your opinions are not be taken seriously.

BTW, since you claim to be a teenager when Israel became a state, what did you do between 1948-1967 when Israel was denied access to it’s most holy site and the Jewish synagogues and cemeteries were being desecrated by the Palestinians?

The Palestinian Arabs are the occupiers of Jewish land
Tell the World they are delusional in thinking that Arabs belong in Israel - There will never be an Arab/Palestinian State together or adjacent to Eretz Israel.
There has never been such a nation as the Palestinian/Arab People.
The Arab/Moslem Koran specifically states in
The Qur’an 17:104 - states the land belongs to the Jewish people
If the historic documents, comments written by eyewitnesses and declarations by the most authoritative Arab scholars are still not enough, let us quote the most important source for Muslim Arabs:
“And thereafter we [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: ‘Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd’.”.
Any sincere Muslim must recognize the Land they call “Palestine” as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by Muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah’s ultimate revelation.

Any building of housing in The Greater Israel is the right and duty of the Israeli government. There is no such a thing as occupied territory. It is the land of Israel for over 4,000 years.
Sequence of historical events, agreements and a non-broken series of treaties and resolutions, as laid out by the San Remo Resolution, the League of Nations and the United Nations, gives the Jewish People title to the city of Jerusalem and the rest of Israel.
Let the Arab nation take the Palestinian Arabs and settle the in the Million plus Jewish home that they evicted from their countries and allow the Jewish nation to live in peace.
A true peace in the Middle East will be an economic phenomenon that the world has never seen. But this can only be accomplished when there is a real peace. The Arabs must stop preaching and teaching hate.
Any liberal Israeli that is delusional about Arab intention and wants to give any land in Israel to the Arabs should live Israel; he does not belong in Israel.
YJ Draiman, Northridge, CA